Anyone on here refiine? - Page 2

One thing I have learned from here, is to take Barren's word on refining.

Originally Posted by freonjoe

Without prior chemistry knowledge, I think you would be a short lived wannabe refiner. Good thing Gus and Noble aren't around anymore (but I do miss both of them). Have you read Hokes (Ithink that is the name of the book) yet?

I have no idea where Noble is. But I can tell you there is a 99% chance that Gus will not be back on this forum or the the GRF. we talk almost on a weekly basis.

Up until your answer Barren, no one gave a straight answer to the OP. And this is not the GRF so no need to slap someones wrist for asking a question that to my knowledge has never been asked HERE before. It was a legit question that was asked of scrappers on a scrap metal forum. Your answer is typical and what turns people off at the grf sometimes. Granted there are a lot of people that go there looking for someone to handfeed them all the answers, and they are weeded out quickly, but there is no reason to bring that attitude here.

Sirscrapalot - Nothing like waking up on a lazy Sunday and finding someone dropped off a fridge at your house.

Full article at Scrap Metal Forum: http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/day-l...#ixzz2XlJ6hyaw

Was if full of beverages?

Originally Posted by 41haikuwarriors

I've been reading over on GRF for about 2 months now. Most of the time all I leave with is a headache from trying to process all the info in the tiny brain I have. I've just been "lurking" basically, haven't had anything relevant to add besides newbie questions so I just read. Being able to refine myself would be awesome, so ive been curious for awhile.

Refining any metals, let alone precious metals, is not something I would lightly suggest anyone just take up, specially without prior knowledge of chemistry or being in an industry that would lend some of the experience you learn there, to refining.

Originally Posted by 41haikuwarriors

My question is, have any of you, without prior chemistry knowledge, made the jump from scrapper to refiner??

There are several people whom I have met, and spoken with, one of which has posted on this very thread who have either made the transition, or are making the transition or doing both. If you think about scrapping through to refining you will soon discover that there are many overlapping qualities.

In order to move a metal from waste, to refining you must collect and break it down into a form that can be more easily dealt with, which is the scrapping part, then you must recover the metals you are intending to refine which could be considered the middle step in the process between actual refining and scraping, and then finally you have the refining. So scrapping, to recovering, to refining would be the path if you are looking to specifically make the transition from scrapper to refiner.

It is not easy but it's also not impossible. It will take a lot of reading on your part, and asking the correct questions after you have done your reading first. If you spend any time on GRF you will realize one thing that rings common in all the threads that people who are just starting out run into. Everyone who is an accomplished refiner will tell you that you must read, and read more, and then read some more after that. You are fortunate in that you have this website, and GRF to refer to so that you understand the full scale of scrapping to refining. These two sites combined probably represent the most important repository of information in any library or school anywhere in the world. Knowing this, you should use both just as you are doing here.

I would be interested to hear any kind of stories you all may have pertaining to this.[/QUOTE]

I am not going to write my own story here, but suffice to say I had no formal education in chemistry, I have learned all I have on my own, and much of that proprietary. Although many refiners you encounter will gladly help you along the way, and disclose some of the methods, processes and concepts that will make what you are intending to do far easier, you are still going to have to learn on your own much if not most of what you will apply in order to be successful at refiner precious metals.

If we were sitting down having a cup of coffee and you told me you were thinking about learning how to recover and refine precious metals I think these are the questions I would ask you:

Why? What is your reason for wanting to recover and refine precious metals, is it because it sounds like an interesting hobby, or are you thinking about doing this to make a living? Most people on GRF are doing this as a hobby or a way of making extra money. Very few people do this for a living, it's not easy, it's cut throat and if you are not very careful, you can loose a lot of money before you start seeing any profit. If you are doing this because you need to make money, that would be the wrong reason. Just the equipment alone you will need to purchase to be able to turn this into a viable business will set you back a very tidy sum indeed. If you already have an income and desire to turn refining into a business, I would suggest not borrowing any money but instead to use the bootstrap method, meaning start it as a hobby, and turn the profits back into equipment and slowly evolve your lab in that way. It will take a long time but it's the right way to do it.

Are you willing to take extreme safety measures to insure the safety of not only yourself, but your family, pets, neighbors, and anyone else that might come into contact with the waste products and/or gases that are produced during the refining process, because honestly, they can harm, maim, cripple or outright kill. Unless you are willing to take on the responsibility of the safety measures that should be taken each time you do anything during the refining process, then you shouldn't go any further.

Do you have the space to do this in? That means a clean area not cluttered. Not long ago I spoke with someone who was refining in their garage and figured that they didn't need a fume scrubber because they had their antique car in the garage they could get in and wait for the reaction to finish. This person didn't realize that the gas that evolves during the refining process is also very highly corrosive. Needless to say it ate the metal of the front of the car and caused thousands of dollars worth of damage. You need to have the correct space before you even contemplate doing this.

Are you willing to invest the time, effort and energy not to mention money needed to read and understand, to educate yourself on how to do this properly. This is very important, if you cannot do this and absorb what you read, then you will not even possess the basic understanding required to ask the right questions, or understand the answers given. These processes are not recipes, this is not chemistry by weighing and measuring but instead chemistry by observation. You need to be able to observe what is going on, understand it, and be able to dynamically decide what needs to be done from that point forward. This is the difference between someone who is strictly educated and someone who puts what they have learned to work for them in the proper way. This is not to say you should ignore measurements, or understanding chemistry on that level, but it is very important you are able to conduct chemistry by observation as well.

If this thread turns out interesting, and there are some good questions that evolve, I would be willing to spend more time on it. I appreciate being missed, I didn't realize I would be. I am still here, I am not going anywhere, I just have not had a lot of time to devote to writing as much as I have in the past. My business is starting to evolve and I'm still putting together my building properly so I can do what I need to do on a larger scale.

Scott

I also do both! But i am no home refiner. There is a refining business in my family and it is easier to bring it there where I have the lab, all safety equip with hoods and scrubbers and a way to deal with the waste material and lab techs who know their way around every type of material. The only downside to the way i'm doing it is they don't want to deal with a pound or two so i have to bring at least 50lbs of material down and it takes a while to accumulate on the other hand the return is much nicer

I just downloaded Hokes PDF file, Inevitably when I learn I will probably try but I might be years from it . I will not do it the same way I learned scrap (as I went along) I want to know the procedures and be able to have a intelligent conversation about how it is done .Till that day I keep collecting stock (cpu boards mem) I cash in my TV boards all the time for Copper bearing - I have wondered if there was any precious metals on TV boards worth reclaiming small level as I run about 400 pound conservatively of TV boards to the yard = $60 monthly
If there was a way to just get the solder off boards and then put them to ingots I would be interested .As a scrapper who picks up weight all the time I am sure there is some jucy silver lead solder on them boards
When I chop up the boards to fill a 10 gallon pail It's hevy I figure thats not from the plastic or tid bits of copper , it's solder.
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I would be appreciative of a shout, if TV boards have precious metal-bearing material that I keep tossing away at .15 LB.

The only thing that may be worth saving off those boards are any ic chips. Pull one off and take a chisel and hit it on the seam on the side and see whats in side. Other than that pull off what you normally do and get your .15# for the boards.

On the subject of TV boards - AL comes off and certain easy to retrieve juicy copper items . The ic chips i figure they were copper as i once did look once .
What i always wonder about are the AL heat sinks , I figure have they have a ic chip also,
they might have a touch of value as the yards never complain about it being dirty AL
Like if I bring in AL and it had the same size piece of plastic on it or a few screws it is dirty AL . Yet the AL heat sinks from tv's with a large in your face chip they always take

What I have learned from yards there is always a rhyme or reason for there actions. They chisel me down $6 on a load of short cause some thing was over 5 foot while the rest is perfect . The AL heat sinks with chips they want ,it's clear to me.

Originally Posted by BRASSCATCHER

The only thing that may be worth saving off those boards are any ic chips. Pull one off and take a chisel and hit it on the seam on the side and see whats in side. Other than that pull off what you normally do and get your .15# for the boards.

I would be appreciative of a shout, if TV boards have precious metal-bearing material that I keep tossing away at .15 LB.

I posted this in the room but you did ask a valid question, I probably have a pill bottle full about now.
I usually pull alum. heat sinks, transformers, chokes-coils, larger IC's, and any other larger copper/brass items.

http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/priva...scrapping.html