This just started

This may happen in your town soon:

Taken from the 7/1/2013 San Francisco Chronicle:

New S.F. permit law may foil scrap-metal thieves

Frustrated by crooks who rip copper from cars, homes and anywhere else they can find it, San Francisco on Monday will enact a law requiring anyone who sells scrap metal to one of the city's four junk recyclers to hold a special permit.

The goal is to attack the market for copper theft, which has plagued transit agencies, utility companies, cemeteries and other businesses. While the permits will be good for two years, they will be mostly off limits to people with a history of theft or burglary.

"For the ones that are legit about it, it won't be that big a deal," said police Officer Sue Lavin, who leads the city's enforcement efforts against recyclers. "Most of the metal thieves have a criminal record."



But at one of the city's recycling yards, officials predicted that the law and the $768 permit fee would only drive metal sellers - including many lawful ones - to junk dealers just outside the city. They predicted a 30 percent plunge in business.

"The problem with this new legislation is it's singling out San Francisco," said Nick Circosta, the chief financial officer at Circosta Iron and Metal Co. in Bayview-Hunters Point. "All of our customers who aren't willing to buy the permit can drive to South San Francisco or Oakland, or our competition can move to Brisbane and start buying all the metal."

Circosta said the four San Francisco recyclers would pay dearly for the city's desire to be a pioneer in stopping copper theft. Statewide laws, he said, would keep the playing field level among recyclers.

"We've had these guys for 15, 20 years," he said of customers. "It's all based on loyalty."

Under the new legislation - authored by Supervisor Malia Cohen, whose district includes Bayview-Hunters Point - metal sellers must apply for a permit with the Police Department and submit to a background check.

Licensed contractors, who often must discard scrap metal, are exempt. Applicants with past convictions for burglary or theft can seek a hearing to try to get a permit.

Police are allowing sellers a 90-day grace period to get a permit, Lavin said, but must show as of Monday that they have at least applied.

Recyclers noted that state law already requires them to keep records of sales, including photographs of sellers, their driver's licenses, their license plates and the goods they bring in. But Cohen said San Francisco was setting an example by going further.

"This is a public safety issue," Cohen said. "Cars were getting broken into, fixtures are getting stolen. It would be negligent of us to turn a blind eye to it."

A spokesman for Pacific Gas & Electric Co., which says it has lost at least $5.2 million due to metal theft over the past seven years, said the ban will help fix a metal recycling industry with "very little oversight."

"Sue (Lavin) has done a great job in combatting this," said the spokesman, Joe Molica. "This gives the Police Department a lot more teeth in the permit process and who ultimately gets to buy and sell."


Update:

The permit is actually $824 and it's good for two years. You have to go to the police station to get a permit application, and half of the cops in the station don't know anything about this.

Scrap yards that buy from new sellers (even if the seller has this new valid permit) can be charged a fee of $136, which the yards are passing this charge down to the seller. In other worlds, a seller sells to a new yard, and the seller takes a hit of $136 for doing business with this yard for the first time.

The ordinance states that no one can buy metal unless the seller has this seller's permit. In other words, you haul scrap out of someone's place and you're not allowed to pay them for any kind of metal value at all (this actually may work out for the better).

This hasn't prevented any theft; it'll probably start more of it. It just started a new black market. People with permits are buy from non-permitted sellers for way below market rate. People are cruising places where the homeless gather and buy copper for next to nothing.


I've been hoarding about 1,000 lbs. of copper so far and it make more sense to take it to a yard in the next city.

$824 is ridiculous!

This always makes my blood boil......I have survived because of scrap metal, I have not asked for gov asst. of any kind and I did not steal to make my load. If they looked at the numbers, there is only a few doing the stealing and there are laws for that already......it is just another way for the government to steal more money out of the pockets of the people.

I guess you will just have to find a scrap yard not in the jurisdiction of the town. Good luck in your search.

scrapdollar our goverment doesn't want survivors they want dependents

It makes me sad for the homeless guy that legally walks or bikes the streets picking up cans. Every town/city has people that do this and it is so beneficial to the environment. The sad part about this persons scenario is they likely can't just haul it over to the next town. 10 lbs of cans might not be much to you and I, but that 6.00 might be just enough for that person to survive.

Our company is a member of ISRI. Part of the dues that we pay go to lobbyist, whose sole job is to make sure that draconian legislation like this doesn't get passed.

These laws are solely feel-good laws. They make people feel like something is being done to curb theft. In all reality I doubt that this law will have little to no effect on the amount of theft. As long as copper has value people will continue to steal it.

Originally Posted by newattitude

Holy cow!! why is the permit so expensive???? I wouldnt mind a background check and maybe even up to a $50.00 yearly price for a permit but that price is exorbitant!!!!!

Why? It's just another way for that communist bastion of San Francisco to raise funds. California is an embarrassment of a state.

When you buy a gun, a federal background check costs like $5. For the police, it costs nothing but a few minutes of their time. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for San Fran to be charging what they are for this permit, other than to raise funds for their mismanaged and already insanely expensive city.

And what's to stop someone with a permit to post ads on craigslist or elsewhere offering to purchase other non permit holders scrap?

God, I absolutely despise California.