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Congrats and Good Luck!
My dad did a lot of large company refurbishments. Look for coins under the machines when you pull them out. Lots of BONUS Silver!
And I'd suggest consulting with an electrician on pulling all the wire OUT. They use "Chuggers" to pull the wire in, you could use one to pull it out!
A member of the forum visited the site today. If the member wants to identify themselves, that is fine. It is not my right to share the information. We found miles and miles of copper wiring 1 - 2 inches thick. The challenge will be how to remove it from the conduit. The member of the forum also found brass pipe that I had not found. After they left I went back and studied the location and found an unbelievable amount in the building. There is also a ton of copper tubing that neither one of us saw. I have spent the last week giving tours to metal buyers, riggers, and other individuals and still find new metal every time I go in.
I misspoke about the size of the boilers earlier. They are actually 36' x 24' in diameter. The height is accurate.
Because of the information provided by Bear and Sawmilling I have been in contact with several equipment brokers. The challenge will be to get these items moved in a timely fashion without disrupting the removal of other steel. The plan is to provide tours, money on the table, and deadlines for removal.
Look at any heat exchangers very closely--they may be just brass and copper or may be exotic alloys such as monel. More money in your pocket.
You've probably realized by now that you need to spend several days just wandering inside the plant with some big flashlights looking at everything so you know what you have to sell.
I found this to be invaluable when I was contracted to sell off a planermill for the company I worked for. I had spent years with the company and had done 8 or 10 big projects in that planermill when it was operational. So I thought I knew the plant inside out. When they asked me if I was interested in selling it my first reaction was..."there's not much there--and its all pretty old. I doubt we would make much." (The plant was built in 1970 and shut down in 2004). But I spent a week going over the equipment and it kinda blew my mind--I ended up with nearly 700 lots. We sold the lots by sealed bid. The company made $400K, and after had enough steel left over that a scrap company came in and levelled everything for the left over steel and left the wood building remains in piles...For free. The wood buildings were made from big glulam beams and 3x12 Douglas fir timbers 24' long. I tried like a maniac to get someone-anyone- interested in salvaging the building timbers but no one bit. There was over 100,000 board feet of glulams and 3x12's to be had. They were all smashed up and taken to the landfill.
The takehome detail of this little story is there is always something else you will find that will be someone's treasure. If you miss it someone that is scrapping near that treasure will just stea...no, take it as part of his lot.
Hope this helps,
Jon.
Wow. I'll definitely be following this. Make sure to take lots of pictures, not just for us but to show any potential clients you may meet in the future. When do you actually start?
Originally the recommendation was to use propane and liquid oxygen to cut the metal. Now we are looking at adding Petrogen torches. Tater was the first to bring it to my attention and after research we will be using at least five. We plan to hire a crew of 25 to start the project. Five will be cutters immediately and the rest gophers. The plan is to allow all of them to earn the right to become cutters through their effort, skills, and safety practices. Another lucky break we got was access to the resources of Smith/Miller torches. They have a series of video's on their web site produced by Dale Johnson, their cutting specialist. He will be giving a clinic to our torch men before the start of the project. Smith/Miller is paying for this because we are using some of their equipment.
Now it is time for the lawyers to finish crossing the t's and dotting the I's. It will be at least two weeks before this project continues. I am returning to the ranch for a couple of weeks to cut iron. I am working on four farms right now and will prepare iron for my sons. I have three more farms to scrap as well. There is at least six months of work laid out for a one man crew. My sons will take over this summer fulfilling my commitments.
Happy scrapping to all.
Thought I would add a little humor to the thread. City slickers and southerners on the forum will not appreciate this as much as those of us that make a living in nature. I warned every one of the buyers about the cold, but none took me seriously. They all under dressed. One showed up in business clothes and shoes, no gloves, and carrying a suitcase with a metal detector up 10 stories in - 20 temps. Some invited me to lunch just so they could warm up. White Russians were a popular drink with lunch. They were all blue by the end of the tour and one group only made it 20 minutes before they had seen enough. Not one of the visitors wore insulated boots or a stocking cap. Regardless, all of the bids were great and only one admitted they were cold. The others were so cold they could not admit it. I am not tough, just smart about battles with nature. Dress for the occasion.
That's hilarious.
Just goes to show how little those guys cared about spending their companies money. Not dressed for the job=not going to be able to do the job properly. I guess, in their defense, seen one plant to scrap out, you pretty well seen them all. But still, the % of higher value metals will vary from plant to plant. What the heck was a guy carrying a metal detector for in a plant that was likely 99% steel?
By the way, is there enough higher value metal in the plant to warrant leasing or renting an XRF gun for a couple months so you know what you have? I'm guessing that the boiler waterwalls are some pretty good steel. I understand anything with a nickel content will get you some better money than basic steel. Not sure if a plant that old would have much stainless?
Freezing my ptoot off in 30F weather in the great white north!!
Jon.
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/...ps278223aa.jpg[/QUOTE]
It took me a minute to remember where I had seen some of these. In California there is a company using hot springs to power old refurbed generators similar to this one. They were getting their generators from old scrapped USN ships.
Very interesting project, thank you for sharing. Mike
The construction superintendent and demolition forum for the company that hired me as a consultant tested me last week. They took me to another project and had 25 I beams, 21 - 23 ft. long, 16 in. width, and 3/8 in. thick. They were going to cut them up for scrap and wanted to know if I could get more. They wanted them moved now. I asked for a week. They granted that.
Being new to the area, I did not have a network yet so it was research time. Found a contact and made the following deal. Explained time was of the essence and if he offered a fair price and picked them up on time, I would have a lot more in the future. The company was going to get roughly $ 200 a gross ton for them and I got an offer of $ 300 a straight ton. Set pick up one week from when I saw them. Superintendent and demolition superintendent could not get them to ground level in time so now we are waiting on them.
any chance they'd found it more suitable to have cut them up ? (or would that just be mumbled incoherently atm? ; )
when i did drafting we had books with beam sizes and weight per foot, could probably find that info online now
It would have been easier to get them down. They are having to winch them one at time and one floor at a time. I love it. As far as the weight of steel I found a site when working on the water tanks that provided that information. You just plug in the dimensions and it spit out a weight. I will have to find the site and post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear
PatriotQuote:
Originally Posted by Patriot76
While you may consider yourself to be what you described in the above paragraph there has to be a very good reason that you were tapped to help execute this project. I have read lots of your posts, looked at some of your pictures and followed the water tank project you did last year. Based on that I would venture to guess that you were selected because you are a man of integrity, honesty and your reputation in the area you live and work earned you some strong recommendations. I wish you the best as you are starting to see this project begin and look forward to reading and seeing what you are able to add to this thread.
Thanks for all of your contributions, I certainly have learned more than what I could possibly give back.
Bruce
Patriot,
You might not have considered the following question: Who should remove items that are not going for scrap?
For example, if a guy buys a turbogenerator, he will likely want to have his own contractor remove it. Your guys are not TG experts and don't know what is important when cutting one loose.
It's money in your pocket to allow others to arrange to remove goods they plan on reusing. There might be a few caveats you need to ensure are applied, such as their removal must not destroy adjacent equipment or make access unsafe (reinstall handrails, block off openings and the like) but it would save you tons of fiddling with stuff with your own crew.
Get the buyers to do the work, even if it's picking up something simple like an air compressor or a metal lathe. As is, where is.
Sorry, I might be stating the obvious...give me a kick if I should shut up...
Jon.
You make some great suggestions and I have always been impressed with your insight and knowledge. I need all the help I can get and would never question expertise.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawmilleng
Because of the information you and Bear provided, I have several brokers interested in the machinery in the plant. When you provided the information I went to the owner about the idea. He said he had bad experiences in the past, buyers not picking it up, not paying for it, or getting in the way of demolition. I counter offered, money on the table, deadlines, and working around our crews. It was pointed out he could get more than scrap value and the purchaser would have to provide the crew for removal. He hesitated and I said they will need to use a crane to remove it. That would save him the cost of moving the crane and we could use it on an hourly fee to get what we need out. He is on board now.
The information on the forum has been valuable and used to make me look more valuable. I have always pointed out when ideas come from the forum and that is why he allowed me to post this adventure here. He is a member of the forum and can check on my posts anytime he wants. Therefore there is no advantage to pretending to be anything I am not. When the time is right, I will share the location, project, company name, and many other details.
Thanks again Saw.
The good part about a project this big is you probably have lawyers to write up the contracts
I think you mentioned the building would be renovated in some way, which would require removal to be as damage free as possible. The less they tear up, the less you'll have to fix ; ) You might also want to consider the renovation plans, and think ahead about what materials(beams etc) might be best kept onsite for use during the project. Historic sites encourage re-use of as much of the original materials as possible during renovations.
Being on the river you'll also need to emphasize keeping it clean. Otherwise, one big overnight rain and you could have a major hairball going downstream. There's no doubt numerous(and possibly monsterous) drains, going straight to it. Might even consider diverting some of them during various phases.
They possibly still have the blueprints, you'll likely find those useful also. Frankly, I'd like to see those myself, they'll be the original type "blue" prints. The storm water drainage system would be of particular initial interest considering its age, some major drains may be hidden and forgotten by now, but still fully capable of delivering major runoff to the river.
You'll be putting together a fair size crew there. I consider it helpful for each member to know for sure who is their next up, and where to take any problems to.
I think you'll find your employer knows what he's doing, and I think he'll find he chose the right man for the job. Whoever he is, welcome to SMF, and good luck/best wishes to you both
Bear, some great ideas. Had not thought about the use of the drains. Some are 4 ft. across and seem to be everywhere. This solves one of the problems we are facing. The facility flooded some years back and the bottom floors are buried in ice and water. Using ice augers and skid hammers we can break the ice. We have the pumps to remove the water but need to get permission to discharge it in the river. If we can't is will take some time for the ground to absorb and we will be dealing with ice on the job site until spring thaw.
We have some building plans, but are working to get more. The majority of the equipment was produced by Babcock and Wilcox and I have contacted their research library to secure these. In two weeks I have not heard back from them. A contact with the power district provided the equipment lists and serial numbers that were compiled when they were looking into selling it to a broker. These lists were distributed to brokers this week.
You are absolutely correct about reusing materials. I am being furnished updated blueprints of the project for this reason. The construction superintendent will identify everything to save. The cat walk will even be used to pour the concrete floors. I do not know how this will be done, but will be learning.
they'll pump it through a series of pipes or hoses that clip together
I received some valuable information outside this post from a member of the forum about silver and platinum in older servers from telephone banks. We were disconnected twice before I could ask him if I could share his name. He sounds like he could be a valuable resource for everyone, if he wants to identify himself. Since he contacted me off the post he should have the right to remain anonymous.
Since this facility has been vacant for 20 years, some scrappers have already gotten some of the goodies. The steel buyers estimated they removed 10 - 15% of the nonferrous before the power company hired 24 hr. security. It is believed this power plant is 190,000 sq. ft. That is a lot of non-ferrous metal.
Thanks patriot It was me and my phone suck most days and is crappy the others.
Calling them servers is not quite right although they are on racks too. :cool:
What is in those large building will be large banks of switches that look like this The Phonebooth - Marc's Step-by-Step Telephone Switch.
And on the banks are the switches that have value they look like this File:Crossbar-hy1.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not all contain Pd but they all contain some PM.
Eric