trouble with county taking apart appliances in my yard - Page 3

I would say you have one neighbor, that has decided they don't like what your doing. That one neighbor will keep filling complaints and code enforcement will be making regular drive bys to your property. You will need to show a level of compliance and going the "extra mile" will help. Code enforcement officers have a lot to deal with, if you show a willingness to work with them they will usually move on to the people who don't cooperate with them (there are plenty of those types).

do a good quick clean up before anyone else comes by and be sure to keep it pretty much spotless for the next while while your on the radar until things cool down

Originally Posted by wadarbr549

the above post that i am replying to says ,"We on this forum should not condone what you do" (...) this really offends me..as i have been a member of this forum for a year or so and that is not my opinion at all.

I understand this objection. It's not a good idea to imply that all forum members should agree with your own viewpoint. However, in some ways you seem to be doing the same thing. For example, you wrote:

...people need to mind there own business...if you are so fragile you are offended by the site of junk then you have serious issues and may need help.

I know there's at least one member of this forum who would not always agree with those two statements: me. Although I generally think that people ought to mind their own business, if someone is doing something that could significantly affect my own life, I believe his activity becomes "my business" too -- especially if what he's doing causes me harm or poses a potential danger. And I just plain disagree with the idea that anybody who considers junkpiles unsightly has "serious issues and may need help." Maybe you were just angry when you wrote that. In any event, just because I don't fully agree with these statements, that doesn't mean I'm claiming they're "wrong." I think we just have different perspectives because I've never lived in a low-density rural area -- and maybe you've never lived in a high-density suburb or city. In your post, you explained the reasoning behind your viewpoint, which helped me to understand it, so now I'll explain my reasoning on the same issues you addressed. In the end, I think we'll understand each other better. OK, so here goes...

If one of my neighbors had so much junk that it lowered the property values i would be very happy, i would actually thank him.

When you wrote this, you were talking about your property taxes. But would you still feel this way if you were trying to *sell* your property? Think about it this way: Imagine something has come up and you have to sell your house to get money. When you put it on the market, will you keep your yard exactly the way it is now, or will you clean it up? Do you think you would get a better price if you cleaned up? If so, then you must believe that for most people, the junk in your yard lowers your property's value.

If you would want to get the best possible price when selling your own property, then you can understand why your neighbors would feel the same way. Now, since you live in an area where people's properties are far apart, I don't know if your yard has a major effect on your neighbors' property values. However, every house I have ever owned has been on a small residential street with lots of neighbors. In that type of area, the values of the homes are closely linked: To determine the value of my house, for example, an appraiser or a real estate agent would look at recent sales of other houses on my street. Therefore, when I bought my property, I paid a price based in part on the desirability of the whole area, which included the protections provided by its zoning laws. If one of my neighbors had subsequently started running an apparent salvage operation from his yard and had filled it with visible piles of junk (all of which our zoning laws prohibited), I would have been very worried about his impact on the property values of everyone on my street, both for their sakes and for mine, since the values of our houses would sink or swim together.

On the other hand, even if you personally don't care about the resale value of your property, I hope you'll understand that most people do care about theirs. For most Americans, their home is their biggest investment, and a lot of them work very hard to pay for it. Most homebuyers take on a large debt obligation, so their costs include substantial mortgage interest payments (less tax deductions). As a result, if the value of their property decreases -- or just doesn't increase enough over time to make up for those costs -- they will lose some of their hard-earned money when they sell it. By the way, if you have a mortgage, this includes you. Even if a homeowner doesn't have to sell his house today, a decrease in the appraised value of his property could have a negative impact on his ability to borrow money today.

So when you say, "I am not causing anyone any harm at all by piling up junk," that's true only if your property has zero effect on the property values of your neighbors. That might be true for a small percentage of Americans, such as those who live in *remote* rural areas, although in most rural communities, property values do move together. But most Americans live in more densely populated communities in non-rural areas: 85% of us inhabit just 28% of the land in this country. This part of the population is also more mobile -- they buy and sell homes more frequently, which makes them sensitive to property values. Many of these people *would* cause harm to their nearby neighbors' property values if they did what you do. In a typical residential area, the visible presence of large amounts of "junk" in someone's yard doesn't just decrease the value of that property, it usually pulls down all other properties in its vicinity as well. Even if junkpiles don't bother some people, most of our society considers them unattractive and/or potentially dangerous due to the material itself and the rodents that might nest in the piles. Do you really believe that all those people are just "fragile" or "stuck-up"? They're the majority of the population -- they're *normal*. Nobody in his right mind would ever suggest "improving" a residential property by filling the yard with defunct appliances, dead machinery, and miscellaneous piles of junk. That's why zoning laws often prohibit processing or storing large quantities of waste in residential areas, and that's usually why neighbors complain if someone does it -- not because they have "so much time on [their] hands that [they] need to be concerned with whats sitting in [their] neighbors yard," but because they work hard to pay for their property and they don't want their neighbor's yard to erode its value. As you said, "if someone owns something then it is theirs, not yours." I agree, and if one persons's actions harm the value of things that other people own, then I think he is violating that principle.

I think some of you feel that your neighbors are judging you or looking down on you if they say anything about the way you use your property. But there are lots of things that people don't want to see in residential areas. You can't put a factory in your yard or use it as a warehouse to store palettes of bricks, brand-new electronics, or anything else if it's residentially zoned. When people pay to live in a residential area, that means they don't want to live near a factory or a warehouse yard. If you filled your front yard with palettes of gold bricks, I bet most people would call those an eyesore too, once they got tired of staring at them. Try it! ;-)

Originally Posted by wadarbr549

I personally do not care what my neighbor has or does in his yard

Again, if you were selling your house because you needed money, and your neighbor was doing something that decreased its value, then would you care?

Of course, property values aren't the only thing that can be affected by the activities of your neighbors. Suppose you lived in a suburb, had a 1/2-acre yard, and were surrounded on all sides by other houses. How would you feel if one of your neighbors was doing something on his property that posed a potential danger to the area?

How would you feel if your neighbor did something that *he* believed was safe but *you* thought was dangerous? For example, let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you considered pit bulls dangerous and didn't want your kids to go near them. What if somebody moved into the house right across the street from you who always had at least 20 pit bulls running loose in his yard (with a chain-link fence) because he breeds them to make extra cash? Would you check to find out if that was legal? Would you want your kids to go anywhere near his yard if you thought his dogs might be dangerous?
(By the way, just so nobody gets the wrong idea, I used pit bulls in this example because so many people are afraid of them.)

What if your neighbor constantly did something that didn't harm the value of anybody's property or seem dangerous, but was disruptive? For example, if your neighbor made a lot of loud noise every night that prevented people from sleeping, would you care? How about if *every time* you went outside to work in your yard or to have a barbecue, your neighbor was playing some kind of music that you hate so loud that you couldn't ignore it? Would that affect your ability to enjoy your yard? Would you ever ask him to turn it down?

i do not need to be corrected, informed, aware, condoned, educated, scolded, or even bothered about what is on my land. also the only line around here to step over would be my property line, and i do not step over it.

OK, well, I am trying to share some information with you, so I guess you could say I'm trying to "inform" you, but I hope you won't think I'm trying to "scold" or "correct" you. I'm just telling you how I see certain things based on my own experiences, which is exactly what you did in your post. Often the same thing will look different to two people because each of them is seeing it from a different angle.

As for property rights, I agree that the idea of doing as we please on our own property sounds reasonable, as long as we're not harming others. If we all lived in relative isolation, that would be the end of the story. The problem is that a huge majority of us live near other people, and the activities of our neighbors really can affect our lives, for better or for worse. The average residential lot in the US is less than 1/2 acre -- your property is 10 times that size. When a number of people own properties in close proximity to one another, they become stakeholders in a whole neighborhood, whether they want to or not. They're like a group of people all packed into one rowboat, where the movements of each person affect what the boat does. In a situation like that, if one person decides he can do as he pleases and it's nobody else's business, the other folks who are stuck in the boat with him are probably going to object.

This is very different from your circumstances. You live on nearly 5 acres of your own property. Your closest neighbor might not even be able to see your house. You can sit in any room of your house and expect not to be disturbed by anyone but your own family. You can probably get up at 4 a.m., go outside, and start up a loud machine without worrying about waking up 6 other households. When you walk out your front door, you don't see another person's front door 40 ft ahead of you. You can choose not to see and talk to your neighbors every day. When you say, "I don't care about what others think of how I live," you don't have to consider the 30 other little houses on your street inhabited by other hardworking families.

Ultimately, I think you and I share certain basic principles; our differences arise when we apply those principles in the context of our own experiences because we live in environments where our actions as individuals have very different consequences. I can understand why you cherish the freedom you have, even though I've never enjoyed it on any property I've ever owned. I hope I've helped you understand why some of us, under circumstances very different from yours, choose to limit some of our individual liberties -- and why we might object if one of our neighbors asserts his own individual liberties to the detriment of the rest of us.

I'm going to quote one of my favorite Americans, a man that had a way with words and was able to get people to look at themselves before finding fault with others. I just think these are appropriate for this thread and should help all! The late great Will Rogers - "Common sense aint so common". - "When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging". - "There are three kinds of men. The ones that learn by readin' the few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fences for themselves". Sirs a few for your quote book!

Originally Posted by bigburtchino

I would say you have one neighbor, that has decided they don't like what your doing. That one neighbor will keep filling complaints and code enforcement will be making regular drive bys to your property. You will need to show a level of compliance and going the "extra mile" will help. Code enforcement officers have a lot to deal with, if you show a willingness to work with them they will usually move on to the people who don't cooperate with them (there are plenty of those types).

Sounds wise, I will comply and be helpful to a point.

Originally Posted by 12oclock

Originally, I was bent due to the 4 words that describe me and many other proud people...don't tread on me.
Then, the other side of me recalled a saying my mother drilled into my head long ago as a child...your rights end where mine begin.
This is coming from a guy who's lived both sides of this. I was born in a city of 60k+ and the majority of places, due to ordinances voted upon by elected officials that the people elect, that don't allow "eyesores". So, again, I was born city, but my heart is in the country. I no longer live in that city and now reside in a rural setting with hardly any ordinances. This is where not only your privelege, but your right to pick up and move to a place that suits you comes in to play. So, for the OP....if in fact you have a plethora of scrap laying around that could potentially drive the cost of others property value down and it is transcribed into local law, you have 3 choices. 1. Downsize the operation 2. Like many others have mentioned, build a fence, do it in a garage, etc. Out of sight, out of mind or 3. Move to a different location that better fits your lifestyle.
Good luck!

So, for the OP.... ??? ( Offending person)??? Are you referring to me?

Original Poster...


Or it could be some new fangled meaning.

Sirscrapalot - Betting on the first option.

Definitely "original poster"!! Standard forum-ese.

I never would have thought of "offending person." Is "OP" used that way in the "real" world?

That's BO....but FL you know as well as i do with the internet there are so many abbreviations.

An being called an OP is nothing personal, as I said before an FL pointed it out, it's pretty standard to most forums. I use it when I can't recall the OP in a long thread. One or 2 pages even, an it's easy enough to go back an look.

Offending Poster is a good one tho, an it gave me a chuckle. In a nice way.

Sirscrapalot - Helping define the internet, one abbreviation at a time.

I personally don't like nosy neighbors, and deliberately moved to a run down rural area in AZ where I really wouldn't be bothered. But in a nicer hood, I'd go with tall bushes and good privacy fences, and a clean front/visible yard with sufficient curb appeal to have others not notice me.

The one old busybody across the way - i try to be good to her, so she will tell me if she has a complaint, rather than going to the authorities first. And she does. She watches what everyone does, like a hawk.

Staying under the radar is an art.

Originally Posted by sirscrapalot

that's bo....but fl you know as well as i do with the internet there are so many abbreviations.

sirscrapalot - helping define the internet, one abbreviation at a time.

ssewba...

Dftba!

Originally Posted by FLimits

ssewba...

Dftba!

lol

Since I'm the master translator to the stars...I'm only doing one, you all can guess the last. Ha ha.

Someday Soon everything will be acronyms...

Dftba - How could I FL? It's me!

AAOMI - NetLingo The Internet Dictionary

AAK or you get letters imprinted on your forehead, an of course this post was sponsored by AAAA.



Sirscrapalot - Some people have a serious FBOCD

Originally Posted by davidarlen

So, for the OP.... ??? ( Offending person)??? Are you referring to me?

Sorry, didn't see this til this morning. I apologize for initially laughing, but thanks. I like starting off days with one. As others have stated, it's forum lingo for "original poster"....The one who starts a thread. I'm not your offended neighbor. I have scrap in my yard also.

Originally Posted by Sirscrapalot

Original Poster...


Or it could be some new fangled meaning.

Sirscrapalot - Betting on the first option.

Thanks clearing up the meaning of op.

I appreciate all of the insight I have received from all of the members, kind of helps me see my neighbors point of view without all of the emotion of dealing with neighbors. They tell me they don't like something but I did not realize how it affected them if that makes any sense? I just felt that they were infringing on my rights as a property owner. I did not have the prospective of my neighbors that they felt I was infringing on their rights to the enjoyment of their property.

No problem 12Oclock I also like a good laugh