Plan B. - Page 2

I have always been concerned about the effects of our social welfare system and the difference between a hand out and hand up. JFK said it best, Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. If our society believed this, it would solve many of our economic, political, and social problems. Childhooddream hit on another ingredient for our problems. Not only is our government controlled by debt and living beyond its means, but many citizens are living in the same manner.

My plan B is the same as my plan A, plan C, etc. I am debt free and this in itself is a great asset to ensure survival. My focus in retirement is self sufficiency. Hunting and fishing have been a big part of my entire life for recreation and now it provides additional food. This year I started my first garden, a disaster but hopefully I will get better with time. Learning something new everyday is a priority. I was never a mechanic so now after tearing things apart and admitting defeat, I hire a mechanic. The difference for me is helping the mechanic with the repairs. This way I learn tricks of the trade that might help with the next breakdown. I am sure this strategy has saved me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.



My business plan is pretty simple: scrapping and farm restoration. For the farm restoration side of the business I look for things that others do not have the time, equipment, or desire to do on their own. Showing a customer how much money they can make in the long run by paying me is a huge part of my strategy.

Now for the safety valve of my lifestyle, something I have not talked about or seen on the forum. I do a lot of bartering and yes I pay taxes on it. After all I have a responsibility to help pay for social welfare, Obamacare, multiple cell phones for those on welfare, etc. It is assumed many on this forum participate in this type of economics but do not want to admit it publically so I will. Labor is traded for the use of equipment, hunting rights, or garden vegetables. Firewood is traded for used oil, loaning my trailer to have someone spray weeds, and cleaning out sheds for scrap. I sell farm machinery for farmers in return for references, donate antique equipment for the PR, and trade metal art for horse tack. This morning I helped a neighbor with computer issues and helped them advertise several items on Craigs List in return for the use of their pontoon boat. My college wrestling buddies are planning a walleye fishing/beer drinking tournament latter this summer and we needed a stable boat for the occasion. (Clarification, I am far from an expert on computers but to a 75 year old farmer I am a guru.)

So bartering seems to be my safety net and one that will serve well during bad economic times. It is amazing the types of deals that one can make and how beneficial they are to all parties. My guess is that if the economy goes to pot, this will be the most valuable plan B.

Originally Posted by Patriot76

I have always been concerned about the effects of our social welfare system and the difference between a hand out and hand up. JFK said it best, Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. If our society believed this, it would solve many of our economic, political, and social problems. Childhooddream hit on another ingredient for our problems. Not only is our government controlled by debt and living beyond its means, but many citizens are living in the same manner.

My plan B is the same as my plan A, plan C, etc. I am debt free and this in itself is a great asset to ensure survival. My focus in retirement is self sufficiency. Hunting and fishing have been a big part of my entire life for recreation and now it provides additional food. This year I started my first garden, a disaster but hopefully I will get better with time. Learning something new everyday is a priority. I was never a mechanic so now after tearing things apart and admitting defeat, I hire a mechanic. The difference for me is helping the mechanic with the repairs. This way I learn tricks of the trade that might help with the next breakdown. I am sure this strategy has saved me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

My business plan is pretty simple: scrapping and farm restoration. For the farm restoration side of the business I look for things that others do not have the time, equipment, or desire to do on their own. Showing a customer how much money they can make in the long run by paying me is a huge part of my strategy.

Now for the safety valve of my lifestyle, something I have not talked about or seen on the forum. I do a lot of bartering and yes I pay taxes on it. After all I have a responsibility to help pay for social welfare, Obamacare, multiple cell phones for those on welfare, etc. It is assumed many on this forum participate in this type of economics but do not want to admit it publically so I will. Labor is traded for the use of equipment, hunting rights, or garden vegetables. Firewood is traded for used oil, loaning my trailer to have someone spray weeds, and cleaning out sheds for scrap. I sell farm machinery for farmers in return for references, donate antique equipment for the PR, and trade metal art for horse tack. This morning I helped a neighbor with computer issues and helped them advertise several items on Craigs List in return for the use of their pontoon boat. My college wrestling buddies are planning a walleye fishing/beer drinking tournament latter this summer and we needed a stable boat for the occasion. (Clarification, I am far from an expert on computers but to a 75 year old farmer I am a guru.)

So bartering seems to be my safety net and one that will serve well during bad economic times. It is amazing the types of deals that one can make and how beneficial they are to all parties. My guess is that if the economy goes to pot, this will be the most valuable plan B.

every one needs to take a serious look at this post! A LESSON IN IMPROVING YOUR POSITION IN TODAY'S WORLD.

First I will agree with most of your points, except one:

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

I have to admit I am a little confused by the statement. I thought the far, far, left of center have been in control for the last eight years. Am I missing something. Our present administration has racked up a larger debt than all of the previous administrations combined. Maybe more education on my part is needed because I fail to see your point.

I agree that our government is living beyond its means, but if I have a choice between our military spending and our social welfare system there is no doubt in my mind. If you are one that depends on government handouts, I feel sorry for you.

Without getting political (against forum rules) I will end this with three letters: FDR and those that follow his footsteps.

Originally Posted by aph

The US Social System is not the cause of the US's problem!

The cost of social programs e.g. food stamps are MINIMAL compared to where the money REALLY is going. 49 cents of every dollar spent worldwide on military is spent by the US military. Corporate welfare in forms of subsidies, tax breaks etc is astronomical.

The entire idea of capital gains taxes being lower than earned income tax or general INCOME TAX period is INSANE!

Who benefits? The rich, always the rich and the corporations (owned by the rich). Who makes the rules? The rich in government. And the poor ones are being bribed to go along.

Few excemptions apply.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem that a business owner gets rich. But the exploitation is out of control.

Instead of spending all that money on the military spend it on infrastructure. Imagine 1 Trillion spent over 10 years to rebuild crumbling bridges, highways etc?

High paying jobs, money in circulation, people NOT dying because the **** bridge collapses under them.

THAT would get the economy back up and running.
Cut student loan interest rates to the same rate banks pay to borrow money from the feds.
Encourage education.

I could go on and on.

I had dozens and dozens of employees over the year. It's a freaking NIGHTMARE what's out there.

One example:
Set up a group interview for 6 applicants once.
3 did not show up at all.
2 were late.

1 during the interview was bragging how much she likes to smoke weed.
1 at the end of the interview asked what the job actually is and what we do.
(After the CL ad said: entering books into our databases, we are a huge book seller online and walking through the warehouse with 210,000 books on the shelves to get to the offices.

The quality of employees and applicants is atrocious!!!!!

Government controlled non education system. I could survive on my SS but I don't want to just survive. The point is with 5 year unemployment plans, food stamps ect. there is no incentive to work for those who are just willing to survive.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

If it's okay i'm going to steer it back just a bit ....

AGW brought up the issue of food stamps & social welfare as being a part of the problem. I broadened it out a bit by saying that "entitlements" are a huge part of our budget. That would include Social Security,Medicare,Mediacaid,VA benefits, Disability benefits,Food Stamps,WIC, Fuel Assistance,Obamacare, and so on.

It's all the same thing. Please don't get mad when i say this, but there really is no difference between the man drawing an unemployment check and the gent who earned his VA benefits. Under our system both men are equally entitled to receive benefits.

The core problem is simply that we as a nation are living beyond our means.

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

The American military industrial complex & the global projection of American military power is considered to be of paramount importance. When it comes right down to it we are the police force of the world. Without the stability we provide the world would be a very different place. The Hitlers, Stalins, and Saddam Husseins would run wild and beat up on everybody.

This is also a huge part of our budget and another thing we cannot afford. We're borrowing money to keep our navy afloat.

Do you see what i'm saying ?

It really doesn't matter which side of the political fence you're on. It doesn't matter if your agenda is bread or bombs. Both sides have been equally reckless & irresponsible in running up a huge debt.

Therefore: This can't be solved politically.

It really is an economic problem. My personal opinion is that it's just a matter of time before our debt swallows us whole and we are forced into bankruptcy. It happened when the economic system of the former USSR collapsed. There's a very real possibility that it may happen to us as well. The cold war may have been a Pyrrhic victory for us. It's true that they died, but we may have been mortally wounded in the conflict as well.

That's where plan B comes in.

Please do not lump ss and medicare for those who worked all their lives and paid into a health care system and a retirement system that in today,s dollars should be worth over 800,000 for the average social security medicade investor. Those who did not pay in to FICA should not be listed as entitled. entitled means just that. I am Entitled to SS + interest and I am entitled to medicare because I payed for it and am still paying for it for over 55 years.

It is not my fault the government stole our money and used it on those not "entitled" to it.
It is a propaganda trick to lump welfare and other subsidies to those who didn't earn it and call it all entitlements.

There is actually an entire building in Quantico Va. for the sole purpose of holding file cabinets of Government IOU to the SS system to keep those who stole it out of jail. I know this sounds like tin foil hat stuff but it sadly isn't.

Originally Posted by HipoGear

Glad to hear some truth! Social support systems are a drop in the bucket compared to corporate welfare and war.

Just imagine if we begin to spend on infrastructure. Employment (good jobs) goes up. Spending goes up, creating even more jobs. And dare I say it??? Scrap prices go up too.

I appreciate every person that has served our country in the military. I really do. But, we are not fighting wars over atrocities committed all over the world. We fight war for profit. Period! Every foreign military base we operate is protecting oil fields.

Sorry Old Dude. I'm not the one who started this though

No Apology necessary here. I am a vet, yes, but 50 yrs ago I was young and stupid. In my third tour, I suddenly realized The people we were killing and killing for were still going to be rice farmers and fishermen no matter who won. I was no longer stupid. My son will never fight a war just to make a wall streeter or banker or politician rich. I will personally escort him to Canada first.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

If it's okay i'm going to steer it back just a bit ....

AGW brought up the issue of food stamps & social welfare as being a part of the problem. I broadened it out a bit by saying that "entitlements" are a huge part of our budget. That would include Social Security,Medicare,Mediacaid,VA benefits, Disability benefits,Food Stamps,WIC, Fuel Assistance,Obamacare, and so on.

It's all the same thing. Please don't get mad when i say this, but there really is no difference between the man drawing an unemployment check and the gent who earned his VA benefits. Under our system both men are equally entitled to receive benefits.

The core problem is simply that we as a nation are living beyond our means.

Now ... let's be fair and pick on those right of center:

The American military industrial complex & the global projection of American military power is considered to be of paramount importance. When it comes right down to it we are the police force of the world. Without the stability we provide the world would be a very different place. The Hitlers, Stalins, and Saddam Husseins would run wild and beat up on everybody.

This is also a huge part of our budget and another thing we cannot afford. We're borrowing money to keep our navy afloat.

Do you see what i'm saying ?

It really doesn't matter which side of the political fence you're on. It doesn't matter if your agenda is bread or bombs. Both sides have been equally reckless & irresponsible in running up a huge debt.

Therefore: This can't be solved politically.

It really is an economic problem. My personal opinion is that it's just a matter of time before our debt swallows us whole and we are forced into bankruptcy. It happened when the economic system of the former USSR collapsed. There's a very real possibility that it may happen to us as well. The cold war may have been a Pyrrhic victory for us. It's true that they died, but we may have been mortally wounded in the conflict as well.

That's where plan B comes in.

Please do not lump ss and medicare for those who worked all their lives and paid into a health care system and a retirement system that in today,s dollars should be worth over 800,000 for the average social security medicade investor. Those who did not pay in to FICA should not be listed as entitled. entitled means just that. I am Entitled to SS + interest and I am entitled to medicare because I payed for it and am still paying for it for over 55 years.

It is not my fault the government stole our money and used it on those not "entitled" to it.
It is a propaganda trick to lump welfare and other subsidies to those who didn't earn it and call it all entitlements.

There is actually an entire building in Quantico Va. for the sole purpose of holding file cabinets of Government IOU to the SS system to keep those who stole it out of jail. I know this sounds like tin foil hat stuff but it sadly isn't.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

To the best of my knowledge they started re-directing the funds coming into the Social Security Administration ----> to the U.S. treasury & issuing IOU's to SSA back during the Nixon (r) administration ?

Anyway, they broke the deal.What's done is done. That happened long before i started paying into the system & i've been working for close to 40 years now.

Actually I think it was before Nixon. Ill do some research and find out.

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