How NOT to clean up a site - Page 3

Originally Posted by AdmiralAluminum

I wasn't attacking you for posting it, I was just saying IF I did, I would have left out some of the details, at least until whatever legal issues are arising were dealt with and finalized. I support your using state authorities in this case and covering your butt. That's smart. I only raised the issue of anonymity out of concern that the other parties involved can easily find all the posts here and may not take kindly to you covering your butt at their expense.



Many times other posters here have warned against and even acted on reporting other scrappers who post about releasing refrigerants and other toxins into the atmosphere. Nothing wrong with reporting someone who has broken the law, that's why there are laws and law enforcement. I mainly can't understand Scrappah's issue with alerting the authorities to violations of environmental laws that are in place to protect the environment we all share and will be passing onto our children.

It's mostly because things can get really messy when you call in the authorities. The blowback can be terrible. It's always a last resort and only after you've exhausted every other avenue of resolving the problem in some other way.

Originally Posted by MattInTheHat

have you ever heard the term "back charge" they touched something withing your scope of work, thereby making your job harder and infringing on your part of the contract

I was thinking the same thing, you just beat me to it. That is, if there are in fact written contracts.

From what i've seen over the years ..... legal problems are bad news for a business. ( You want to avoid them like the plague.)

Case in point:

One of the local mine owners here bought some used equipment from one of his competitors years back.

The competitor sold him the equipment and then turned around and reported him to OSHA & the Bureau of Mine Safety for having defective equipment thereby setting him up to fail.

I don't know how it turned out as far as the Guvmin't was concerned. I do know that both parties spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees during a long drawn out civil court battle.

After it was all said & done the only winners in the case were the lawyers.

The miner summed it all up this way .... he said: It's like two farmers fighting over a prized cow. All the while, the lawyer is down there milking it for all it's worth.

As what I have told you can you please explain how I have been keeping up with my end of the job but they get to bulldoze things over and get away with it because they only wanted the cars and 3 1/2 busses...

It's a crap deal for you. They poisoned the well you were intending to drink from. That's the way it goes sometimes.

Just don't make it any worse for yourself. You have to be careful because what goes around comes around. What you put out there is what returns to you in ways you could never anticipate.

A guy like that is his own worst enemy. The crap work he's putting out there will most definitely come back to bite him on the ass someday. The trick is to make choices where you're not linking his fate with yours.

Be happy in your work and strive for excellence. Don't worry about what the other guy is doing. Mind your business and you'll do well in life.

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On where you are right now ......

Is there some way to quiet this thing down and delay for awhile ? The reason i say this is because winter isn't too far off. Pretty soon everything will be frozen in and buried under two feet of snow. Nobody will be able to touch it till late next April.

By then .... it will be a different situation.

Maybe i'm wrong but i just don't see this as being a profitable job for you.

Maybe if you put an ad in "Uncle Henry's", you can get the Down East D i c k e r i n g guys to clean it up for you.

Personally I can only see (from the pictures), LIABILITY for anyone that is involved with this property. If the soil has been contaminated (can't see how it could not be!), this can get expensive fast. This does not look like a good scrap opportunity for anybody, except for a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. (My $0.02 for what it's worth).

Originally Posted by matador

I don't know why they couldn't renegotiate a contract after the DEP analyzes the situation. I'd think they'd also have the right to back out.

I'm not a lawyer, but my take is that they agreed to do the job before this happened. The damage caused by another contractor has completely changed the circumstances, and the DEP audit will serve as proof for this. Since circumstances have changed, the contract should be eligible to.

Plus, if the DEP finds this to be a hazardous area, the land owners won't really be in a good bargaining position.



matador: "If it's free, it's advice; if you pay for it, it's counseling; if you can use either one, it's a miracle." -Jack Adams

Ummm .... trite sayings are all good and well but ..... this is Maine.

Maine and Louisiana were ranked by Forbes as the two worst states in the union in which to run a business. Here on the coast well over 90% of the new business startups fail within the first five years. In the Western and Northern parts of the state it's even worse.

Looking at it the other way .... they've got less than a one in ten chance of survival here. With the odds so heavily stacked against you it only takes one or two learning mistakes to put you under.

Your best asset is the advise of the elders in town. These are guys that have survived in business for years n years and have proven that they know to run a business in this place.

I can honestly say that i never would have survived the last fifteen years without their help. I owe them a lot.

Ultimately though ... you have to think and decide things for yourself. You'll either survive or fail based on your own merit.

Uggh ... winter is going to be on top of us in no time. The weather is good today so i've got to get my ass back out there and make some more profit. The lean times are coming where there will little or nothing coming for months. There will be a terrible consequence if we don't have enough put by to carry us through till spring.

It's no time to be distracted by the internet.

That's why I wanted the DEP to know and everything I have sent them pictures and waiting for them to tell me they got them (I sometimes mess up on the Email. So I tired again this Morning). I myself thought of the animals and the people drinking the water not knowing why they were sick or so on. I myself know people who have had cancer just from contaminated water. Its really sad that the fact that no body knows that his place has discharged so much chemicals into a few of the lakes (I even swam in the lakes this summer that it contaminated and didn't know until after). So think of all the kids and all the other people who swam and fished and hunted animals that drank the water..

You need to get serious real life proper contract . Line items , change orders , when another affects the scope of your work areas clearly defined . By survey and stations or Lat long. You encrouched on a US route 1 goes from Maine to fl you could be on the hook . By trying to do the right thing . I don't think this was a j/v between you and the other company took in the constuvtion practices and specs in you state . Just clearing site has lots of things clearly defined by the state . But in the beginning our plan sheets say what specs to govern.you get need a bond to cover the job or onsurance job specific . When you encroach on land state owned I've seen the right of way go from 30' to 2800' fro edge of paved road they don't own it per se but has to be treated as such for drainage , utilities and other reasons . I'm a retired NJDOT highway construction inspector I've seen a lot and learned a lot before blowing whistles , I would have sent a fleet of RFI/RFP and change orders now no matter what happens you are as liable as the other guy really unless you have film it's he said she said . It don't fly in court you both were there did work. Not it's a mess not surity bond ? Or insurance job specific to cover haz - bio haz and removal and remediation . It isn't gonna get done this calendar year . That's makes it bad fir every one but nobody really has defined tasks . Only do line item contracts or really ,you can't estimate and determine P&l. And that today's metals Market is horrible us an understatement. I would rum fa away but your neck deep . And called everyone that can give fines that you grandkids couldn't pay . You need to find a great lawyer that knows construction practices .

The more I try to understand this "As Maine Burns" soap opera, the image and memories of what I thought, was pristine and beautiful Maine have all but evaporated.

Farrar Recycling - The matter factually manner in which you describe "bushiness as usual in Maine", brings back the Wizard of Oz realities of business in general and the governing agencies that promote incompetence of abundance through out our country. This lack of caring about the air, water and land, that we all depend on, becomes "not my problem because - THEY DID IT".

Toto were not in Kansas anymore!

I also have A CDL and Having " special permission " even from the Governor ( never get this ) is far exceeding the design. Ad insurance. Tire load of you vehicle . I would not do it with permission . Unless permits and insurance to back it up . Just my experience
I'm trying to help here . And worked in areas very rural . But commercial vehicles follow FMCSA section 396 " the green book but my job covered accidents in work zones with Feds , State police etc . And to make it easy for. All it's shifting liability bottom line . I can comment and help but you can't put toothpaste back in the tube.we had a contractor not starts job awarded because ( dredging ) because conditions changed from the job starting til bids went out ( sometime it a couple years to a lot more) but he state does soil borings and environmental wirk yeasts before a job states so there is no suprises . I know this is a private job that went hay wire . And I hope you bases are covered . The other guy looks like he doesn't care about the land big mistake . Remediation is a it deal nowadays . I don't post here much but read here most every day . If you wis to phone that's fine. Patriot 76 has tons of experience in this at it seems he fell across that Joe by accident .

I think it's best to let this thread go. What was once a thread about how not to do a clean up is now how every state is right and how every state is wrong when it comes to cleanups like this. Every state runs their EPA differently and it's no one's place on here to say otherwise. Take the info in the thread for what it is and move along. Too many ego's running around today >.<