Business question

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-18-2016, 01:30 AM

Not sure if any members realize originally I was just copperhead (lost password)
Some members wished me luck when I got a job as a trash-hauler for a rural country trash company
I still have the job . The pay is not the ultimate but it's each week . I make extra with can's and scrap .
I figure I'm at the 3 year mark . I have loaded into then out of truck , a long Ton ( 2240 pounds )
2000 times so you do the math. I go to about 100 customers per day 100 150 miles per day .

An idea has been going Thu my mind for a wile ,
to start my own business
115 customer once a week would net me more then my current pay ,
A non CDL truck could handle 400 customers with a need to take trash to Dump once per day
each morning.The dump fees are affordable and a small sum of money from
house hold recyclables is paid (very little )
handled proper recyclable weight adds no dump cost .
Biggest factor - GET CUSTOMERS
The Question -
What kind of licensing cost to start a light trash business
Special insurances
Incorporation fees
State cost's
How do I find out what I need to do ?

**Sirscrapalot** · 08-18-2016, 03:50 AM

Hello Copperhead, glad to hear the trash gig is still going good for you. I remember the thread.

I likely won't be much help but I'll give it a whirl..

1. Insurance... - You will most likely need some type of commercial insurance. I would imagine a CDL would depend on how much weight you plan on transporting at one time.

2. I Imagine incorporation fees will vary state to state. As it's a matter of which state works best for you. The SBA should provide some decent info for you. Their website has a "learning" section. I found it useful when I first got started running my own businesses. Here's a link. https://www.sba.gov/ I'm there are plenty of sites out there with this info an more, but it's a decent place to start. Especially as I don't know how much you've looked into this before, etc etc.

3. Not sure what you mean by state costs. It could be me, which is not unherd of. LOL.

4. No special permits or licenses that I can find, but again that could vary state to state, city to city, etc etc. Some places make you get a license to scrap, some don't. I would imagine it's the same in this case.

Have you looked into dump fees? I'm pretty sure as a commercial entity you'll be required to pay. Make sure you factor this into your rates. Not to mention fuel, equipment for your vehicle, I imagine you'll replace tires doing this. So might want to set up some kind of preventive maintenance fund.

You also need to think about toxic waste, etc. In case some lands in your hauls, as not all people are honest. Not sure how this works for the trash companies. An also, make sure you have the market to support your idea. Great ideas, remain just that..ideas if you don't have the market/customer base to keep you afloat. I would also maybe talk to folks who've done this before, perhaps the SBA can help you there also, as they do have a network for folks to find mentors in their field. Plenty of sites on the web if none in your community also. Maybe even a forum for this kind of thing? Heh.

Far as getting customers...if there was a easy way I'd be rich.

Same as with regular scrap pickups...work the people. Get your name out there, advertise, give them a reason to switch to a small, private hauler vs the big corps or whoever is already running your city/town/state/whatever. Best advice I ever got an can give in regards to getting and keeping customers...treat them how you want to be treated. Corny? Yup. Does it work? Sure does. That's my opinion at lest on it.

I'm sure you'll get more helpful answers as folks see your thread, til then I hope the above helps, an if not...we'll pretend it did.

Good luck!

Sirscrapalot - Better to get out there an chase success than it is to sit an watch it pass you by.

**billygoat** · 08-18-2016, 07:47 AM

The first thing I would do is talk with an attorney. You'll most likely need one for your business anyway. Write down all your questions so you don't forget anything. He can also file all the necessary forms for you.

**nutpie** · 08-18-2016, 08:15 AM

Yes, if a customer feels you don't care about them they will leave you.

**RLS0812** · 08-18-2016, 11:20 AM

Hay, we are from the same state

I'll just get this out there right now - PA hates new business.
A lot of townships have ONE licensed trash company, and will refuse licensing to a second one ( For example: Reading only allows Republic Services to operate in it's jurisdiction, Sandy Township & Dubois only allows Advanced Disposal, and Bellevue Borough only allows Waste Management ).
I would highly recommend looking into the county and township laws regarding trash pickup, and ask a lot of questions.

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-18-2016, 02:00 PM

Thanks for all the info and I know the dumping cost .
I think the issue will be to get the permission to advertise and thus operate business
in the various counties , I see other company's around and some look not to fancy
but permission they seem to have
Since I do this work now & I see a possibility there must be a door hard to open

**ryanw** · 08-18-2016, 02:15 PM

I will second SirS's advice with the Small Business Association. Find an office near you, and they can guide you on how exactly to open your business.

**StRegis** · 08-19-2016, 03:24 PM

Copperhead,

I have a soft spot for guys willing to take a risk and work for themselves. It sounds like you want to start the garbage business with as little money as possible. Here's some advice from someone who did just that (and I'm also in Penn). First, you don't need a lawyer. You can get incorporation papers submitted to the state for $250. That alone probably saved you $3000 to $5000. Second, you need to get a waste haulers license from the DEP. Get details on their website. There's a fee for that about $250. Third, you need to lease a truck. That might be a bit expensive since it doesn't sound like you have much of a credit history but you can't collect garbage without a truck. Finally you need insurance which you can find on the Internet or talk to some truckers and ask what they use. Willis is pretty big in the waste business. It's more expensive than you might think.

As for getting customers, it's just about knocking on doors and trying to win business. Differentiate yourself - either do the job at a lower price or offer better service. Some cities in PA issue franchises for residential waste collection but I don't think there are any restrictions for collecting commercial waste or bulky waste. And above all else, save as much money as possible. Go bare bones for the first two years and save enough money for the bad times and unexpected costs like breakdowns. And don't stop selling. If you want to be the boss, you need to take responsibility for everything that happens at your company. My honest assessment is that it doesn't sound like you are ready to strike on your own but I wish you luck.

**webuyselltradestuff** · 08-19-2016, 05:47 PM

^^^^this is the BEST advice you can get right here....and I 2nd the "file the **** paperwork yourself for the corp".....don't even do a corp, do an LLC. Much easier and better on taxes to start...you can change later.

Not sure what you mean about "permission" to advertise. You can advertise just about any business typically anywhere. I don't ask permission to do anything for any of my businesses...the only person that has any say besides the fed and state is my local county and that is typically just zoning and you having to get a business license (really cheap BTW here). You can easily get any info you need from your county on any sort of restrictions on trash pickup....I would say business license office or similar will know or point you in the right direction.

The SBA CAN be a goo resource if you have zero knowledge on starting a business...but there are plenty of book and resources on the web. It isn't really that hard at all to start one, being successful and being able to pay the bills...well that is different.

You ABSOLUTELY will need commercial insurance...GET SOME and GET ENOUGH, the alternative for not having it or enough will BANKRUPT you if something happens.

Good luck....since you will be running a route, you ABSOLUTELY need to also offer ewaste disposal (just NOT CRT tv/monitors as they are impossible to get rid of...unless you have a source and then you probably will have to charge for it). This is an EXCELLENT revenue source. You might also think about expansion down the line and offering recycling as well. Paper/cardboard is profitable and you really just need a commercial baler to do it. Just some ideas.

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-19-2016, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by StRegis

Copperhead,

I have a soft spot for guys willing to take a risk and work for themselves. It sounds like you want to start the garbage business with as little money as possible. Here's some advice from someone who did just that (and I'm also in Penn). First, you don't need a lawyer. You can get incorporation papers submitted to the state for $250. That alone probably saved you $3000 to $5000. Second, you need to get a waste haulers license from the DEP. Get details on their website. There's a fee for that about $250. Third, you need to lease a truck. That might be a bit expensive since it doesn't sound like you have much of a credit history but you can't collect garbage without a truck. Finally you need insurance which you can find on the Internet or talk to some truckers and ask what they use. Willis is pretty big in the waste business. It's more expensive than you might think.

As for getting customers, it's just about knocking on doors and trying to win business. Differentiate yourself - either do the job at a lower price or offer better service. Some cities in PA issue franchises for residential waste collection but I don't think there are any restrictions for collecting commercial waste or bulky waste. And above all else, save as much money as possible. Go bare bones for the first two years and save enough money for the bad times and unexpected costs like breakdowns. And don't stop selling. If you want to be the boss, you need to take responsibility for everything that happens at your company. My honest assessment is that it doesn't sound like you are ready to strike on your own but I wish you luck.

The lease truck ??? Like I mentioned this is rural country I collect trash with a Pick up BUT yes the company does have one garbage truck that 75% of the time I remove trash from pick up and put in garbage truck But often I take directly to Dump
& fees are paid by company I work for .

I was hoping to only use the dump each morning
and my trash truck of choice would be a used box truck.

Maybe the trash company I work for , can use pick ups
cause they have one official trash truck .

**DmIAurbaminer** · 08-19-2016, 08:28 PM

Copperhead
I have driven a garbage truck for 3 companies in the Dsm IA metro area for 15 years.
You need to look into state and local laws .
Each truck has to have a permit for each city it picks up trash in . You said you were in a rural area but do you go into more than 1 county?

How strict are your D.O.T. regulations ?

How much trash can you put on that truck before your over weight?
I have gotten thousands of dollars in fines for weight violations . Your total truck weight can be under gross but you can still be ticketed for each axle .
Trucks always break if you only have 1 truck how are you going to get trash off the ground if your is broke down?

Research and read about the industry you are wanting to go into .

**MattInTheHat** · 08-19-2016, 08:39 PM

you will want an account at the place you dump the trash. you should be able to get some info about local laws from the person that sets that up.

there may be some environmental permits you need to haul trash

I also worked for a trash company in my past. I have some ideas to share privately if you are interested in a phone call sometime.

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-19-2016, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by DmIAurbaminer

Copperhead
I have driven a garbage truck for 3 companies in the Dsm IA metro area for 15 years.
You need to look into state and local laws .
Each truck has to have a permit for each city it picks up trash in . You said you were in a rural area but do you go into more than 1 county?

How strict are your D.O.T. regulations ?

How much trash can you put on that truck before your over weight?
I have gotten thousands of dollars in fines for weight violations . Your total truck weight can be under gross but you can still be ticketed for each axle .
Trucks always break if you only have 1 truck how are you going to get trash off the ground if your is broke down?

Research and read about the industry you are wanting to go into .

My routs are all one county but different towns Many roads are dirt that only a pickup could manage
The most I load is a Ton and it's not legal since the truck is a 3/4 ton
I've been lucky with DOT , but once I saw them setup on a road and I made a left turn to avoid them
came back a few hours later to finish . I like to avoid all police if one is behind me I turn into the nearest store .

Had some issues in my past with DEP due to scrap on property
they treated me as a trash company listing my scrap as solid waste & I was not obeying the laws of handling refuse of a business and fined me. In hind sight they took it easy on me as they had a stipulation that they wanted to know where I got the refuse and documented proof where it was brought and the weights of said refuse

**bullion** · 08-20-2016, 12:48 AM

I worked for 4 different trash companies, the largest being BFI. I worked in Canada so I won't even attempt to discuss the legal aspect but one option is instead of using a box truck there is a company out there that makes a tow behind garbage trailer that has a packer body like a big garbage truck and has a hydraulic packer and it tilts up to dump when full. I had my own garbage company for 3 months but I couldn't get enough customers away from the 2 big haulers to make a go of it. I recommend sending mailers out to at least 1,000 potential customers to see what the interest level in your service is. Don't make fancy fliers just buy 1 pack of paper from Staples and print simple text on one side. Nothing wrong with starting with a small truck like you have been using for the first few months but upgrade to a good size vehicle as soon as you can. You can get a used side load residential truck for about 10 grand. I found a single axle 5 ton freightliner with hydraulic brakes and a proper packer body for 10 grand- it only had 50,000 miles on it. PLUS with a good sized truck you can get contracts for apartments, condo's trailer parks, etc.

Good Luck.

**foobar** · 08-20-2016, 07:32 AM

Where I live there is no big trash company, but several local companies. I've seen 3 stay, but seems like a few times a year someone has the same idea you do and they don't last long. I can tell you the best way to get customers is to get a few to start with and keep them. word of mouth referrals will mean a lot. people will ask community sites who is good for trash and your existing customers can provide free meaningful advertising if you impress them.

I switched to a startup years ago because they were 50% cheaper. First and foremost they were unreliable. My trash was always out by 8am. sometimes it was picked up at 9am, sometimes as late as 8pm. several times it was picked up the next day or even next week. that was my worst gripe, and the primary reason I switched.

Next gripe was how unprofessional they were. their only method of communication was a handwritten note on a scrap of paper on my door. Very gruff personality with no communication skills. if their truck broke down, they used that as a reason why trash would not be picked up for two weeks.

it's similar to scrap contacts. if you are clean, professional, and reliable, then your business grows. Ignoring those fundamentals is sure failure.

Arround here the way you pay for business is prepaid trash bags custom for each company. I pay 25 for 10 contractor size bags.

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-20-2016, 09:09 AM

This week I'll find out if I can start small with a built up pickup like I use
thats gonna be the only way .
I have the experience foundation
Scrapping & my 1000 tons of trash I've handled already

**Hypoman** · 08-20-2016, 03:28 PM

Well, from experience using my box truck in my junk removal biz, i would advise against buying a used box truck. Loading and unloading by hand is hard on the body. I suggestion lookinh for a used truck with a dump bed. Like the ones the big boy junk removal companies use. It will save you so much time and enegery...both are so oimportant....so big thumbs little letters.

**CopperHeadAKA** · 08-20-2016, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hypoman

=. Loading and unloading by hand is hard on the body.

After 1000 loads put in then out & each week the number grows
Yes ..... IT'S HARD ON THE BODY
So I guess thats why I started thinking A start of 125 customers a box truck will equal WAY more pay then my Job
125 customers would be easy and leave me tons of time for other ventures .
Thanks for all the input
From a confirmed curb hunter scrapper with history / A Loading and unloading by hand Trash Guy
I work hard and sleep well . I want this , I have to have this .
I'm there already ,I work HARD.
The idea seems very easy to me. BUT I know there has to be a catch nothing is easy
As I think and dream the far left are adding more regulations to stop an

**nutpie** · 08-22-2016, 12:26 PM

It helps very much to be organized, very well organized. And more organized. Write things down.

**Scrappah** · 08-22-2016, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by CopperHeadAKA

After 1000 loads put in then out & each week the number grows
Yes ..... IT'S HARD ON THE BODY
So I guess thats why I started thinking A start of 125 customers a box truck will equal WAY more pay then my Job
125 customers would be easy and leave me tons of time for other ventures .
Thanks for all the input
From a confirmed curb hunter scrapper with history / A Loading and unloading by hand Trash Guy
I work hard and sleep well . I want this , I have to have this .
I'm there already ,I work HARD.
The idea seems very easy to me. BUT I know there has to be a catch nothing is easy
As I think and dream the far left are adding more regulations to stop an

Just a suggestion for someone looking to go out on their own .... don't blame the boogie man. It's more than likely that the biggest obstacle to success anyone will ever face will be themselves.

Doing the work is one thing. Running a business is a different thing. There's no reason a person can't do both but it will give you some sleepless nights. It's great when things are going well and you're making money. It can be awful when things aren't going well and problems come up. You gotta take the bad with the good and know going in that there will be times when you might not be able to draw a paycheck for a month or two because an unexpected operating expense came up.

The " catch " is that your fate really is in your hands once you decide to go out on your own.

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