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| A Day in the Life of a Scrapper
  1. #41
    Mechanic688's Avatar
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    3. You may need to get a lawyer to get SS. They turn down a lot of people almost automatically. Please talk to one, they may do it for a later cut (meaning no money up front).
    It is hard to quit smoking, but I had to when they threw me in the hospital and told me I was dying. Not too much of a decision then. There are lawyers even on tv advertising about taking cases for SS, you pay only if they win. Here's the one I see a lot.
    http://www.binderandbinder.com/

    P & M Recycling - Specializing in E-Waste Recycling.
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  3. #42
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    The key is Im fed and not homeless with my 3 yr old.<<

    it is the child i am thinking about. that child needs you. now and in the future. what will your childs future be like without you. how financially crippling would it be to your family if you were fined and/or incarcerated. how devastating would it be if you were to die from the results of your illegal scrapping.

    how would you feel if your child was to have health problems as the results of the asbestos you brought home.

    there is more to this issue than simply making a dollar.

    i do not see any hate from any of those who replied to you. a concern about health and legality, but not hate.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbrooks715 View Post
    The key is Im fed and not homeless with my 3 yr old.<<

    it is the child i am thinking about. that child needs you. now and in the future. what will your childs future be like without you. how financially crippling would it be to your family if you were fined and/or incarcerated. how devastating would it be if you were to die from the results of your illegal scrapping.

    how would you feel if your child was to have health problems as the results of the asbestos you brought home.

    there is more to this issue than simply making a dollar.

    i do not see any hate from any of those who replied to you. a concern about health and legality, but not hate.
    I think the disconnect is the absolute certainty regarding health, environmental and legal issues that people have in their responses. What damages health and the environment and to what extent the damage is and whether it's worth the risk or not is not as binary as most of the responses suggest...... IMHO of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reelman65 View Post
    I think the disconnect is the absolute certainty regarding health, environmental and legal issues that people have in their responses. What damages health and the environment and to what extent the damage is and whether it's worth the risk or not is not as binary as most of the responses suggest...... IMHO of course.
    an absolute certainty that if you get caught illegally handling or disposing of asbestos you will have a serious legal problem. there are no exceptions in any of the laws i have ever read. the list of those who have been fined or incarcerated include individuals, company's and corporations.

    every study shows that exposure to asbestos damages your health. how much damage depends on how much exposure.

    can i use that binary reasoning or the, i'm doing this so i am not homeless and just feeding my kids, excuse to rob banks, write bad checks, burglary, or???

    i can come by and steal all of your scrap because my cat might go hungry.

    and you wonder why the politicians continue to write all these restrictive laws.

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  8. #45
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    The word for today; Persnickety

    I will use it in a sentence; Reelman are you saying we are persnickety to expostulate that it is just the wrong thing to do?
    Last edited by injunjoe; 01-18-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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  10. #46
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    now joe, you keep using those big words and they will not understand what you are trying to expostulate.

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  12. #47
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    Sorry Mr Brooks, I thought our members were more previous.

    Don't worry there's an app for that!

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  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by injunjoe View Post
    The word for today; Persnickety

    I will use it in a sentence; Reelman are you saying we are persnickety to expostulate that it is just the wrong thing to do?
    I don't know exactly what "persnickety" means" . and I am definitely not trying to create strife or anything like that. But having a background in science, and witnessing first hand how some of the conclusions are reached, I don't just blindly accept what any academic,commercial or govt says.

    If we get caught speeding, then we will absolutely get a fine, but sometimes it is worth the risk. (all the time for some people)

    The determination that freon damages the ozone coincided fairly closely with dupont's patent expiration and dupont's lobbying practices, make me question the conclusions of the dangers of freon
    Would I base my business on releasing freon from old refrigeration systems? no. but I definitely don't lose sleep if I accidentally let one go.
    It's a proven fact original conclusion of the 2nd hand smoke study was inaccurate and politically motivated. and that the risk of 2nd and smoke is less than many other risks that we accept.

    There are many examples of wrong conclusions about safety of practices and materials

    It is not a fact that asbestos will cause health issues. It is a fact that asbestos can cause health issues with enough exposure.
    the Sun will also cause health issues with enough exposure.

    I was using Binary to mean 100% good or 100% bad with nothing in between.

    Anyway, I don't really have a dog in that fight, but it always surprises me on this forum that people (not me, I am too much of a wimp to quit my regular job) in a business that you have to be so original, creative and independent and have a huge amount of courage to carve out your living with no weekly paycheck or guarantees, can thoughtlessly follow the rules set by some panty waste college professor or desk jockey bureaucrat paid off by some company.

    Just my opinion, best regards to everyone.

  15. #49
    Copper Head started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reelman65 View Post
    I don't know exactly what "persnickety" means" . and I am definitely not trying to create strife or anything like that. But having a background in science, and witnessing first hand how some of the conclusions are reached, I don't just blindly accept what any academic,commercial or govt says.

    If we get caught speeding, then we will absolutely get a fine, but sometimes it is worth the risk. (all the time for some people)

    The determination that freon damages the ozone coincided fairly closely with dupont's patent expiration and dupont's lobbying practices, make me question the conclusions of the dangers of freon
    Would I base my business on releasing freon from old refrigeration systems? no. but I definitely don't lose sleep if I accidentally let one go.
    It's a proven fact original conclusion of the 2nd hand smoke study was inaccurate and politically motivated. and that the risk of 2nd and smoke is less than many other risks that we accept.

    There are many examples of wrong conclusions about safety of practices and materials

    It is not a fact that asbestos will cause health issues. It is a fact that asbestos can cause health issues with enough exposure.
    the Sun will also cause health issues with enough exposure.

    I was using Binary to mean 100% good or 100% bad with nothing in between.

    Anyway, I don't really have a dog in that fight, but it always surprises me on this forum that people (not me, I am too much of a wimp to quit my regular job) in a business that you have to be so original, creative and independent and have a huge amount of courage to carve out your living with no weekly paycheck or guarantees, can thoughtlessly follow the rules set by some panty waste college professor or desk jockey bureaucrat paid off by some company.

    Just my opinion, best regards to everyone.
    We really don't know the truth , I would say a healthy person can definitely expose them selves to toxins and permanently damage ones self - yet some individuals are just so strong they can go through life with little worry -- a good immune system. I know I have seen it .

  16. #50
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    Discovery of toxicity
    The first documented death related to asbestos was in 1906. In the early 1900s researchers began to notice a large number of early deaths and lung problems in asbestos mining towns. The first diagnosis of asbestosis was made in the UK in 1924. By the 1930s, the UK regulated ventilation and made asbestosis an excusable work related disease, about ten years sooner than the U.S.[6] The term mesothelioma was first used in medical literature in 1931; its association with asbestos was first noted sometime in the 1940s.
    Approximately 100,000 people in the United States have died, or will die, from asbestos exposure related to ship building. In the Hampton Roads area, a shipbuilding center, mesothelioma occurrence is seven times the national rate.[25] Thousands of tons of asbestos were used in World War II ships to wrap the pipes, line the boilers, and cover engine and turbine parts. There were approximately 4.3 million shipyard workers in the United States during WWII; for every thousand workers about fourteen died of mesothelioma and an unknown number died from asbestosis.[26] {Wikipedia}
    The United States government and asbestos industry have been criticized for not acting quickly enough to inform the public of dangers, and to reduce public exposure. In the late 1970s court documents proved that asbestos industry officials knew of asbestos dangers since the 1930s and had concealed them from the public.[26] A similar situation had arisen in the 1920s with the careless handling of radium and the ensuing scandal of the Radium Girls.
    In Australia, asbestos was widely used in construction and other industries between 1945 and 1980. From the 1970s there was increasing concern about the dangers of asbestos and its use was phased out. Mining ceased in 1983. The use of asbestos was phased out in 1989 and banned entirely in Dec 2003. The dangers of asbestos are now well known in Australia and there is help and support for sufferers from asbestosis or mesothelioma.[27]

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  18. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reelman65 View Post
    I don't know exactly what "persnickety" means" . and I am definitely not trying to create strife or anything like that. But having a background in science, and witnessing first hand how some of the conclusions are reached, I don't just blindly accept what any academic,commercial or govt says.

    If we get caught speeding, then we will absolutely get a fine, but sometimes it is worth the risk. (all the time for some people)

    The determination that freon damages the ozone coincided fairly closely with dupont's patent expiration and dupont's lobbying practices, make me question the conclusions of the dangers of freon
    Would I base my business on releasing freon from old refrigeration systems? no. but I definitely don't lose sleep if I accidentally let one go.
    It's a proven fact original conclusion of the 2nd hand smoke study was inaccurate and politically motivated. and that the risk of 2nd and smoke is less than many other risks that we accept.

    There are many examples of wrong conclusions about safety of practices and materials

    It is not a fact that asbestos will cause health issues. It is a fact that asbestos can cause health issues with enough exposure.
    the Sun will also cause health issues with enough exposure.

    I was using Binary to mean 100% good or 100% bad with nothing in between.

    Anyway, I don't really have a dog in that fight, but it always surprises me on this forum that people (not me, I am too much of a wimp to quit my regular job) in a business that you have to be so original, creative and independent and have a huge amount of courage to carve out your living with no weekly paycheck or guarantees, can thoughtlessly follow the rules set by some panty waste college professor or desk jockey bureaucrat paid off by some company.

    Just my opinion, best regards to everyone.

    I am not a blind follower of "studies" because any research can have a built in bias and it is often funded by the very industry it is intended to examine. Scientists like having an income just like the rest of us. It may take years before a particular study can be duplicated and proven wrong - in the meanwhile, billions of dollars of a toxic product are sold. You have to use common sense and try to protect yourself.

    I also know that correlation does not mean cause - but Dr. Oz would probably have to stop broadcasting if more people figured that out. Ironically, Dr. Phil - one of the greatest purveyors of popular health information in the media is sponsored, in part, by a company trying to ram hormones down women's throats. Hormones known to cause a variety of health problems.

    Some forum members admit to repeated exposure to asbestos and who is to say that if you track it into your vehicle and your house that it doesn't linger there and become long term exposure? If it's on your tools etc.

    And I am one of those people who are allergic to cigarette smoke - it caused me painful sinusitis and ear infections in childhood because my parents were ignorant of it. We can argue forever about second hand smoke and the tobacco industry will keep trying to convince us that it is not as dangerous a product as it is.

    I guess you are either someone who cares about those in your immediate environment and the world as a whole or you are not. If you care, you will try to do the best you know how to do - even if that later turns out to be the wrong thing. You will not sell out tomorrow for a few bucks today. No matter how tempting it may be to do so.

    Getting to the truth is hard. Being willing to look for it is the beginning.
    Last edited by Scrapette; 01-19-2012 at 03:05 PM.
    Success consists of going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm...... Churchill

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  20. #52
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    can thoughtlessly follow the rules set by some panty waste college professor or desk jockey bureaucrat paid off by some company. <<

    leaving aside the health issue debate.

    those rules are laws passed by legislation. does not matter if i agree or not. i know the rules. if i break them i know the consequences. what you, and a few others, are advocating is illegal. if you don't like the laws, change them. don't complain when you get caught and face those consequences.

    i do have a problem with the encouragement of breaking these laws. prison is not a joke. those fines would break most of the board members. and as many work out of their parents property or a third party's property, those folks could be held liable as well.

    these are not parking tickets that you go down and pay a little fine for. these are serious offenses. most are deemed felony's. you get heavy fines, go to jail and the property can be confiscated. even if you do not own the property.

    every time someone trespasses, steals scrap or illegally handles or disposes of hazardous or toxic material, they make it just that much tougher for everyone else.

    pretty soon we will need a license and a permit to recycle our own aluminum cans. the politicians will point to the illegal actions of a few as validation.

    too many in this business have misconstrued their perceptions of the benefits of being a business and ignored the responsibilities and accountability of a business.

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  22. #53
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    to the bonny lass.

    the reagan philosophy. no matter how detrimental my actions of today may be to the future, as long as those actions will not adversely affect me during my life time, i will vigorously demand my right to those actions and deny all adverse consequences.

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  24. #54
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    I am sorry I stated my opinion. I will be more careful in the future.

    """"""those rules are laws passed by legislation. does not matter if i agree or not. i know the rules. if i break them i know the consequences. what you, and a few others, are advocating is illegal. if you don't like the laws, change them. don't complain when you get caught and face those consequences.

    i do have a problem with the encouragement of breaking these laws. prison is not a joke. those fines would break most of the board members. and as many work out of their parents property or a third party's property, those folks could be held liable as well. """"""

    I am not encouraging or advocating anything other than understanding the fiscal, physical and legal risks and benefits associated with an activity and making decisions based on that. Personally, I don't have as much faith in the capability or motivations of legislators as some of you do. I do my research and risk assessment and proceed accordingly. In other cases, when I don't have knowledge or time to understand a situation, following the "rules" is the safe bet, and I do that.

    I am not trying to influence anyone or offend anyone, I just don't like to be constrained by whims of politicians and academics.

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  26. #55
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    I just don't like to be constrained by whims of politicians and academics. <<

    anarchy. a personal favorite. i doubt if we can get the population to agree to it.

    Personally, I don't have as much faith in the capability or motivations of legislators as some of you do. <<

    has nothing to do with faith. tis the reality of the laws the morons pass.

    I do my research and risk assessment and proceed accordingly. <<

    does your research and assessment include any harm or damage you may cause to others. regardless of whether it is intentional or not.

    everyone has the right to an opinion and to state that opinion. which is not a license to advocate criminal acts or possible adverse health risks.

    if you had been advocating the removal of the multitude of worthless laws written by the morons we have elected, then you could sign me up. i am all for that. we can remove the morons at the same time.

    advocating blatant and intentional criminal activity simply for the sake of a dollar is a bit different.

    i happen to support the repeal of the narcotics act. but i am not advocating that more people break the current laws simply because they can make a dollar doing it.

    I am sorry I stated my opinion. I will be more careful in the future.<<

    i would ask that you reconsider. i hope you continue to state your opinions. i, for one, would prefer an open discussion. with no repercussions for the free exchange of opinions, ideas or ideals. regardless of whether we agree with each other or not.

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  28. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbrooks715 View Post
    to the bonny lass.

    the reagan philosophy. no matter how detrimental my actions of today may be to the future, as long as those actions will not adversely affect me during my life time, i will vigorously demand my right to those actions and deny all adverse consequences.
    And just convince everyone that it is the "end times" so they'll hop on that bus with you.

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  30. #57
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    rbrooks...Is there a President in your lifetime you liked?
    Recyclable Material Merchant Wholesaler
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    "Give them enough so they can do something with it, but not too much that they won't do nothing."

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    ike was the last worthwhile president. no one is ever going to agree with all of the politics or all of the actions of any politician. all those who have followed ike have been more concerned with foreign policy and corporate status than the welfare of the country or it's citizens. i am not concerned with the party any candidate runs under, their particular religion, or lack of, or whom they are having sex with.

    i am concerned with the economy, jobs, the debt load, the domestic concerns of this country.

    the president really has no power. at least not in comparison to the congress. the person in the oval office gets the blame or the credit. but it is congress that actually holds the reins.

    i like to use bonzo as a reference a lot. he was a liberal democrat with communist leanings who switched party's to run for president when the democrats refused to place him on the ballot. he eventually became an conservative icon of the gop. which is a bit ironic when you think about it. besides his presidency, his most notable accomplishment was a supporting actor to a chimpanzee. well, he did legalize abortion when was the (d)governor of california 7 years prior to roe v wade. but very few in the public are aware of that. all in all, he epitomizes the current politician.

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  33. #59
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    <<<<<anarchy. a personal favorite. i doubt if we can get the population to agree to it.>>>>
    I don't favor anarchy

    <<<<<does your research and assessment include any harm or damage you may cause to others. regardless of whether it is intentional or not.>>>
    Yes

    <<<<everyone has the right to an opinion and to state that opinion. which is not a license to advocate criminal acts or possible adverse health risks.>>>
    I advocate no criminal acts in this forum.

    <<<if you had been advocating the removal of the multitude of worthless laws written by the morons we have elected, then you could sign me up. i am all for that. we can remove the morons at the same time.>>> I am on board with that.

    <<<<advocating blatant and intentional criminal activity simply for the sake of a dollar is a bit different.>>>>>
    Again not advocating or suggesting that. Also I question the use of the word "Criminal"

    <<<<<i happen to support the repeal of the narcotics act. but i am not advocating that more people break the current laws simply because they can make a dollar doing it.>>>>
    I agree.

    <<<<<
    i would ask that you reconsider. i hope you continue to state your opinions. i, for one, would prefer an open discussion. with no repercussions for the free exchange of opinions, ideas or ideals. regardless of whether we agree with each other or not. >>>>>

    I really just meant that I am not very political and i am not really here to talk about politics etc. I just want to learn and exchange info about recycling

    All in all I guess my world has a lot more grey than yours.

    best regards.....

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    irish lass

    reassurance of being 'right' requires everyone to ride the bus. stragglers are to be shot.

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