New Scrap Law legal challenge - Page 2

if the law does not hold . all scrapers need there phone # on there work truck
big so any one can read it,get caught scraping with out your plaque get a ticket.

Originally Posted by Copper Head

if the law does not hold . all scrapers need there phone # on there work truck
big so any one can read it,get caught scraping with out your plaque get a ticket.

Interesting. I was thinking about this idea and wondered what would constitute "scrapping" (note two "p"s. One "p" is the plural of "scrape"). How about taking a few hundred pounds of copper to the scrap yard using a car? How about getting a couple catalytic converters from the local repair garage?

Not to long ago the feds said you needed to be here legal to work and live here...plenty of folks ignoring that and getting away with it so I'm not going to worry too much until they actually start enforcing some of this crapola.

Originally Posted by freonjoe

It's going to get to the point pretty soon that all of us are going to have to get a business license to scrap. Right now they are cheap and easy to get. It will put a damper on people scrapping for beer money and won't slow down the tweekers. But people serious about scrapping will play the game and win.

For some people it is the difference between being on food stamps or not - it's not always about addiction. The lower income subsistence scrappers will be hurt.

Originally Posted by eesakiwi

They should just stop 'new people' from scrapping metal.

Like, if you have sold scrap metal in the past & never had a problem or got into trouble, then you can sell scrapmetal like you allways did.

But if someone 'new' wanted to sell metal, then they would have to comply with the new laws.

Here we call that being "grandfathered in". Unfortunately, some of the people who sell stolen metal have never been caught at it.

Originally Posted by eesakiwi

Magic! I didn't know there was a name to this idea. I came up with it to get a way to stop more people smoking, ie, if you were born after, say 1990, you couldn't smoke or buy cigerettes or tobacco..
In ten years, nobody under the age of 32 would be a smoker.....

I think the result of this law would be that the current scrapmetal sellers would buy from other people & then they would sell to the scrapmetal dealers.
That'd result in a profit for the sellers, but it would also make them liable for any stolen scrap they had in their possesion..

If they got caught with stolen scrap they would loose the chance to sell to the scrapmetal dealers.

On the other hand, they could get the stolen metal & report it to the Police & keep their current statis. (I think its better to work with the law, than to try & work a way around it)

I think its sorta like moving the 'bar' down one layer & current scrappers use a looser arrangement of laws but are more accountable to the Law than before. (have more to loose)
At the same time the current scrapmetal sellers won't have more competition, which is probably driving the illegal scrapmetal market anyway.

Laws already exist against theft, tresspassing, vandalism , breaking and entering and receiving stolen property.

The yard that filed the suit requires a photo id, you have to register with them and get an account number. I think you have to give a finger or thumb print too. They have security cameras and since they have a lot of cash on hand - probably some you don't see. There is a computer record of every transaction.

There is nothing anonymous about it.

The crimes committed by scrap metal thieves are all already illegal. There are only so many places to sell stolen copper - it's not like stolen jewelry or electronics that could be sold on any street corner.

Crossindex the people with the drug, theft, trespassing etc. convictions with the yard's list of scrappers and watch them. That's what the police need to do. Imo.

Originally Posted by Mod

It's a difficult thing to track. It is unfortunate but without restrictions they will look for something else to stop everyone from scrapping.

Really the police just need to look at a list of any yard's clients, figure out from their records which ones are the most likely candidates to be metal thieves and follow them around for awhile. If they are innocent - then they won't get in trouble - but if they are not - throw the book at them!

Granted some of them haven't been caught yeton any charges. But once the police start arresting people they will probably have criminals eager to give up their so-called friends in excahnge for deals. The deals could include a provision banning them from ever selling scrap again anywhere.

They should also question people in drug arrests to find out what they know about metal thefts - imo.

If they have other reasons for wanting to ban scrapping - they are not using them at the moment to justify licensing - at least not that I'm aware of.

Originally Posted by Mod

Times change. There are some things that start off open that you can no longer just start up. Take banking for example. You can't really just open a bank
as easily as you used to. Same goes for a restaraunt, you need permits, licenses and business sense. You didn't need any of that before.

Banks and restaurants are both in a position to violate the public trust with pretty severe consequences in a way that metal scrappers are not. Imo.

Cincinnati's ordinance is enlightened compared to what is before the legislature in KY.

Metal recyclers can buy copper from only certain vendors and a violation of the law is a class D felony.

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/view/346356