Board grading

[stillwaterrecycling]

Urban some of the smaller sellers on here are doing millions of pounds of something else and just are getting into board grading.

Soon some of the smAller sellers will be the largest.

Not me I'm a battery guy.

We not asking you to buy and sub grade my board by assay. Were saying its like cats. More than 20 or 50 grades. Each board has a value that has been determined by somone by actually assay results.

I'm saying you can tell what a board is worth buy the sum and quality of its parts.

I'm going to bother a buyer with that my knoledge u less I have Gaylord's and a whole trailer of boards.

Urban I like ur posts. Your too the point. Don't go to a cat buyer with 3 cats and ask for 50 grade buying and 500 cat "b level" pricing.

Aaron

[ryanw]

Urban - I really don't like separating my boards into more and more categories. If I can, I prefer to keep all motherboards in one lot, finger boards in another, sat receiver/peripheral boards, etc. I throw a lot of boards into my low grade gaylords that are worth more because I don't want to spend the time on them...up to $1/lb value maybe. Low grade gaylords for me are a mix of every brown board, green power supplies, a lot of mid grade boards, etc. Micro managing the grades of every board is a pita, and not worth it to me...most of the time.

[Scrap Master J]

This topic of what buyers get in value vs what seller gets in value goes back a long way. I remember doing this myself when easy started buying here (before ewasted). What I have learned along the way is this. There are two main factors. The first is no one know where the price of gold (or any metal) is going. This is a big variable. Second, the flow of material through the system (buyers and sellers) keeps decreasing in value. Better technologies allow manufactures the ability to use less of the values we are trying to recover. This is sadly the constant. So if gold holds steady, the value of the "mix" will decline in time. If gold goes down, board pricing will drop at a more rapid rate as a ratio to the gold drop. If gold goes up, then prices should hold to higher in the near term, depending on the amount of increase. I think this should help answer the other often ask question of "Should I hoard or sell?" as well. Buyers must protect themselves from this constant (sellers should also). While sellers dream that the variable goes to the moon (Buyers probably do as well). Sometimes the answer is not what you want to realize.

[manchvegassalvage]

The Value of P4 boards has been declining for a while now because the consumers demands CHEAPER products. So to meet that demand all of the manufactures have created low end computers to fit this need. To acheive this they have created low end mother boards with less precious metals on the connectors, pins, chips and even less copper content in the board . This is why you can buy a complete computer at Walmart for $129.00.

Some people are wasting there time buying P4 boards in 4 different catagories. This is way to confusing for the people who are selling their boards and way to time consuming for the people buying them that way. I have just one P4 catagory and have adjusted my pricing to coincide with that.

The other problem is most people think the value of boards is much more then what they are actually worth. I big contributer to this problem is Ebay where things sell for far more then what the actual value is. The other problem is people selling there boards in SMALL quantities think they can demand the same prices as someone who is selling 10,000lbs at a time.

If you Could get an assay on one P4 board and get a per pound price for that board. Now if you had 20,000lbs of the same board your assay isnt going to reflect the assay you had on that one board it could be more or less depending on who did the assay.

And for the record I have never met Ewasted but I do check his pricing from time to time and he is not unfair or cheating anybody. People have to realize that the people selling us the boards are making 10x if not more proffit then we are.

[Ewasted]

This is certainly an interesting thread.

Stillwater, you are making an attempt to compare cats to motherboards for refining, which is like comparing bananas and M&M's.

Did you say 60 cats? Hell maybe 120 cats? Circuit board refining is extremely complex, there are millions of types of circuit boards. Additionally the quality control standards used by the Chinese for manufacturing these motherboards are less than reliable.

What does this mean? This means there are significant variances. In the world of board refining there are acceptable levels of variances in recovery. Loads out the door are 20,000+ lb LOTS...

Further more the discussion on what makes a better board better, such as chokes, doesn't necessarily equate to great precious metals or great precious metals recovery.

It appears your post is more so to disrupt the board and draw some attention.... as well as make the buyers "mad".


Here is a little secret about assays with circuit boards... well not a secret... I have mentioned this before. NO two assays are the same... EVER!
The assay is as only as good as the man (men... or women) who performed them.

In the world of board buying, you can't justify creating dozens of subgrades that will take substantially longer, tie up more cash flow, etc, etc... in order to pay the customers more up front? Most buyers would be put out of business for that kind of practice.

Different buyers find different ways to manage all of the variables - colors of boards, socket sizes, etc. If you don't like the way one does it, shop around.

We discovered something that worked a long time ago - simplicity, customer service and reliability.

My recommendation - (if anyone cares) quit counting other people's money and focus on what you can do to improve your business model.

[ryanw]

"My recommendation - (if anyone cares) quit counting other people's money and focus on what you can do to improve your business model."

The best suggestion you can give.

When I first started learning, I was obsessed with the grades of different boards, and in the end, although I learned a lot, it really doesn't matter that much. If I'm making an acceptable profit on what I get, then I'm happy. If I have questions about board grades, it's usually from inquiries from my own customers that are wanting better or definite pricing, and that's more for quantity. Ones and twos here and there are a drop in the bucket, and there are other things to do.

Ewasted - I remember a post you made a long time ago, but I don't remember exactly what you said. Anyway, the impression I got from it was to stop worrying about the intricacies of grades, especially with lower value items, and start worrying about volume. That made a big difference on how I moved forward with my business.

[URBANERECYCLING]

Well said my friend: Its almost as if some of the sellers on here thinks its like when kids are 5 and 6 years old(not calling you all children) and they think that when they go to bed the parents have some kind of pizza and ice cream party with pony's and toys all night( saw a film like that once and im still disturbed by what I saw but that's for another post).
What actually happens when you leave our place of business is we deduct the amount we just paid you from our cash flow ledgers and add it to our inventory that will be sent out anywhere from a few days to a whole month depending on how much more of it we can get and how soon we can get it, because in order to pay you the price we just paid you, we need to get it refined or send it to a special market that allows us to make money, which is just about always a much lower percentage of profit then you just made. Then we get to wait for anywhere from 15-60 days to get that money back so we arrange lines of credit in which we must pay for the use of the money that we are borrowing in order to pay you immediately because that's how the scrap business works. On the bonus side of things I get to know you and help build your business whether it is a hobby or a fulltime gig. You bring me pictures of your newborn babies or let me know someone in your family has passed. We create a family atmosphere and I love what we do. We help you out at times when your bills are short and we trust that you will pay us back either in cash or material and not always at once but over time. We get burnt by a few that don't pay back (Dunemaul) but don't let that one person stop us from doing it again ..
We cringe at posts like this questioning how much we actually make when its really none of your business. You don't worry how much I have to pay each week for payroll or rent each month or insurance and taxes because we are a legitimate recognized business so please don't stay awake at night worrying that we are making too much money on your material...
To the customers I have that will read this you know I appreciate each of you greatly and many and most of you are considered friends. This is for members on here who like to comment on a lot of things that are basically wrong and works against the people who take what they say. The buyers on here, especially Mario, spend a good portion of the day answering emails and phone calls from members who have a question. We love doing that because that is how this business works and we appreciate you asking . Just because you comment on 20 different subjects and try to tell everyone that gold will hit 3000 when it is sliding and all information says differently does not make you an expert. It makes you dangerous to the people on here that are trying to make money doing this...
So to sum things up. Separate things by socket send them or bring them to your buyer and let us worry about how we are going to make our money on it..
To the customers of Urban E Recycling I thank you for being the best customers I could have and as always my phone is always on for your call on any questions or needs..

To Mario's customers: He would like you to call him from now on after 11:00 pm each night California time ....

[numbers]

"My recommendation - (if anyone cares) quit counting other people's money and focus on what you can do to improve your business model."


Straying a bit off the original topic but veering off where others have been, here would be my comment.

I had to decide if I was going to be a hoarder or a seller. I had to chose the middle of the road on this. Why? Freight costs. With no acceptable buyers within 140 miles, my best choice, in money and time, is to ship out all of my material, except for light tin/iron/etc. I am a hoarder until I can fill multiple pallets/gaylords. When I have that much material, I become a seller. I can't afford to sit on material and take the chance that the price "might" go up. I need to sell to guarantee that the price won't go down on what I have on hand.

I started shipping out one 68 pound box by Fed-X every time I was able. I then realized that if I shipped multiple boxes at one time I would be able to save some money. I never thought I could ship out a pallet/Gaylord until I tallied up the number of pounds that I had been shipping. I started with one pallet/Gaylord at a time. That worked well. What could I do next? After a few emails with a few different members on this forum, I realized that I should see if I could send multiple pallets/Gaylords at one time. Again my freight rate dropped.

I have no control over what happens to prices in the metal markets. I do have control over all of my costs though. As strange as it may seem, I am now able to ship power supplies in pallet loads and receive more money (after freight!) than I can by selling them to the local yards in my area. When I can decrease my freight rates by over 60%, that makes me more money than worrying about if my buyer is underpaying me. Everyone in the food chain has to make some money. I would rather that the buyers that I ship material to make a lot of money. That is the only way that they will be there tomorrow when I need them.

This is one step I have taken to improve my business model.

[happyscraper]

Well said my friend: Its almost as if some of the sellers on here thinks its like when kids are 5 and 6 years old(not calling you all children) and they think that when they go to bed the parents have some kind of pizza and ice cream party with pony's and toys all night( saw a film like that once and im still disturbed by what I saw but that's for another post).
What actually happens when you leave our place of business is we deduct the amount we just paid you from our cash flow ledgers and add it to our inventory that will be sent out anywhere from a few days to a whole month depending on how much more of it we can get and how soon we can get it, because in order to pay you the price we just paid you, we need to get it refined or send it to a special market that allows us to make money, which is just about always a much lower percentage of profit then you just made. Then we get to wait for anywhere from 15-60 days to get that money back so we arrange lines of credit in which we must pay for the use of the money that we are borrowing in order to pay you immediately because that's how the scrap business works. On the bonus side of things I get to know you and help build your business whether it is a hobby or a fulltime gig. You bring me pictures of your newborn babies or let me know someone in your family has passed. We create a family atmosphere and I love what we do. We help you out at times when your bills are short and we trust that you will pay us back either in cash or material and not always at once but over time. We get burnt by a few that don't pay back (Dunemaul) but don't let that one person stop us from doing it again ..
We cringe at posts like this questioning how much we actually make when its really none of your business. You don't worry how much I have to pay each week for payroll or rent each month or insurance and taxes because we are a legitimate recognized business so please don't stay awake at night worrying that we are making too much money on your material...
To the customers I have that will read this you know I appreciate each of you greatly and many and most of you are considered friends. This is for members on here who like to comment on a lot of things that are basically wrong and works against the people who take what they say. The buyers on here, especially Mario, spend a good portion of the day answering emails and phone calls from members who have a question. We love doing that because that is how this business works and we appreciate you asking . Just because you comment on 20 different subjects and try to tell everyone that gold will hit 3000 when it is sliding and all information says differently does not make you an expert. It makes you dangerous to the people on here that are trying to make money doing this...
So to sum things up. Separate things by socket send them or bring them to your buyer and let us worry about how we are going to make our money on it..
To the customers of Urban E Recycling I thank you for being the best customers I could have and as always my phone is always on for your call on any questions or needs..

To Mario's customers: He would like you to call him from now on after 11:00 pm each night California time ....

I can be a witness to this post. Urban has been a great help to me for over a year. He has helped with the purchase of e-waste, he has sent me leads on pick ups of free e-waste and answered hundreds of questions. For these reasons I don't mind driving one hour to get to his place. I would like to add this to this post. I have delt with four different e-waste buyers over the past 6+ years and everyone of them grade thiere boards different and they all pay different prices. Whoever is my I will sort my boards they want me to and I'll take whatever they pay me and I'll be gratefull for whatever I get.

[stillwaterrecycling]

Ewasted good advice. That's why I'm here. Not for attention.

At the same time I'm wicked excited about recycling and its potential.

Another awesome thread and info.

Aaron.

[stillwaterrecycling]

Mrsam great analogy!!

You def must be missed at that job!

[BRASSCATCHER]

Good discussion and good points made by the buyers that chimed in here. My original question was not pointed at any buyer here. The buyers I have used have been nothing but exemplary in how they conduct business! I do not send mobos to buyers here simply because the prices I get locally are better by .60 per pound.
I understand the costs of doing business and the overhead that someone has like Mario and I have commented on that in other posts.

I also now have a better understanding in how to seperate my boards when sending them out thanks to Urban. I have made a decision to start looking elsewhere to sell my boards and have an appointment with another buyer locally although it means traveling a half hour to get them there. If this proves not to be viable then all my ewaste will be going to buyers here and adjustments will be made in how much I pay for ewaste.

Since I have not recieved a response from my buyer I am going to say to avoid dealing with ArrowScrap here on Long Island. I noticed they bought an advertisement banner here. I can also say that another member here has had dealings with them and were not pleased at the outcome. If they want to post a review about it I will leave it to them.

[Mechanic688]

But Brass, up to this point you had been happy with your local buyer (because of the .60 higher).
Must have been something there (customer service, etc) you liked.

[EcoSafe]

every one is trying to up their bottom line any way they can as Gold and other PMs bottom out.

I've lost two good customers because of falling prices one was an 800lb a month customer I've had for over a year.

I read a report on chinese boards a while back and that report stated they contained 10% less PMs then other boards. Is there validity in that report ? I don't know.

What I do know is that computer company's require certain specifications. Some may be higher then others, don't know.

I do know we get a lot more then a 10% hit on chinese boards. Mexican boards ? Malaisian,Philipeno, Canadian, etc chips ?

I do know if I would have bought one share of Intell stock on its release I wouldn't be worried about it now.

In summation, I also know, the big boys make the rules and the prices, the little guy who made this country great is and has been slowly pushed out of every market for the last 50 or so years. Like every thing else in this world , the process just seems to get faster and faster.

We have to be a step ahead of them not a step behind. just my .02.

if every micro business in America hired just one person not only would there be no unemployment, we would have room for amnesty for all illegals.

[mikeinreco]

Every time I think about getting out of this biz I think about how I used to live paycheck to paycheck flipping burgers

[Mechanic688]

Every time I think about getting out of this biz I think about how I used to live paycheck to paycheck flipping burgers

And now your living paycheck to paycheck flipping computers,,,lol

[mikeinreco]

And now your living paycheck to paycheck flipping computers,,,lol

well not exactly.......the scrap biz has been good to me

[mikeinreco]

yeah the problem I run into is no one around here is a constant source of boards so I do alot of dismantling.......When I do run into boards I always have to deduct for excess aluminum etc just so I don't screw myself...........Oh well I'll go back to work tomorrow and continue to prepare my next load however small it may be compared to the big timers.........However remember this....I was making a deal with a yard owner once and told him I had the money to buy any boards he could get........He said well how much is alot......He said he was talking about millions..........I said no I don't have that but I have enough to sit on my ass for 6 months and not worry about bills etc.......I asked the yard owner if he had that luxury and he said NO WAY........Sometimes it pays to be a small fish in a big pond

[Bear]

All boards "were" Not created equal, maybe they are today, but, that didn't used to be so. Imagine going to the store and getting Ribeye steak for the price of low grade hamburger. Or maybe offering them hamburger price if you buy all their ribeyes. Would it work there? Probably not
I've seen it spoken about the "mix", when one seller sends lower grade, and gets the same price as one who sends higher grade, as being an acceptable practice.
I've also seen it stated that although higher grade boards in the same category improve the "mix", they are Not given any further adeu. But why not?
If you buy(or sell) one gallon of lower grade gas, or whether you buy 500 gallons, it will be the same PPG
If you buy(or sell) One pound of Hamburger, Chuck, Shoulder, Strip, Rump, or Roast, the price will remain the same whether you buy a single slice, or the whole store
I, for one, don't understand the difference. IF the boards are a better grade, no matter the volume, why aren't they addressed as such?

[mikeinreco]

All boards "were" Not created equal, maybe they are today, but, that didn't used to be so. Imagine going to the store and getting Ribeye steak for the price of low grade hamburger. Or maybe offering them hamburger price if you buy all their ribeyes. Would it work there? Probably not
I've seen it spoken about the "mix", when one seller sends lower grade, and gets the same price as one who sends higher grade, as being an acceptable practice.
I've also seen it stated that although higher grade boards in the same category improve the "mix", they are Not given any further adeu. But why not?
If you buy(or sell) one gallon of lower grade gas, or whether you buy 500 gallons, it will be the same PPG
If you buy(or sell) One pound of Hamburger, Chuck, Shoulder, Strip, Rump, or Roast, the price will remain the same whether you buy a single slice, or the whole store
I, for one, don't understand the difference. IF the boards are a better grade, no matter the volume, why aren't they addressed as such?

I think it has to do with the law of averages