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Does anyone legally incinerate?

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    Does anyone legally incinerate?

    I recover and refine precious metals and purchase my scrap from scrapers with consideration to how I have to process it. For example, I don't process flatpacks simply because they require either wet ashing (which is a very dangerous acid reduction) or incineration. If I knew of someone I could trust, who could legally incinerate and used the correct equipment so that the values were not flying up the smoke stack, I would pay to have material reduced to ash so I could process it safely.

    So this could be considered a suggestion as a way for someone who has these capabilities to make some money, but also a question, is there anyone on the board that can, or is willing to do this?

    Thanks



    Scott
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    I've thought about a design for several years now. A venturi/wet wash/incineration/catalyzation process(not necessarily in that order), followed with a pass-thru an ULPA filter bank. While I've gone through many iterations of this idea, I've come to the conclusion that the payback period on my equipment design makes it completely unrealistic to construct if PM recovery is my goal. If absolute cleansing of process waste is my goal, well, I've still got to figure out how to make my system cheaper. It'll probably never happen, but it's fun to work on. And I've had the oppurtunity to give a few of my ideas/designs to some of the "big boys" in the filtration industry.

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    Since about 1991 I have hand built venturi filtration systems for my salt water reef tanks.

    When I started recovering and refining I discovered that because I was doing it on a small scale, I had to build most of my own equipment with the exception of things like a fume hood, etc.

    I built a venturi wet fume scrubber that draws at 10cfm which is more than enough for several large reaction vessels, then I recover the solution from the scrubber which is basically weak nitric acid, and use it for other parts of my process. If you ever get to the point where you need to build a wet venturi fume scrubber for your idea, let me know. I would be more than happy to help.

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 12-09-2012 at 09:53 PM.

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    Is your indicated 10 CFM for a liquid draw, or is that what you draw your exhaust (airborne)fumes at? If you are talking airside exhaust, what FPM do you have you're system calibrated to run? I'd be interested in learning about your specs. Thanks in advance.

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    As a boilermaker i can tell you that we have units that are fueled by bio mass / garbage. Also ethanol refineries dry and burn the left overs from the mash after the alcohol is extracted to produce steam. All of these plants meet epa guidelines for emissions. There is no reason why you couldnt go and make a package boiler sized incinerator or a small 50mw boiler fueled by the material of your choice. You would need to recover the heat and clean the emissions for it to work efficiently and legally. But the emissions controls you talked about are the exact same setup as we build. The smoke goes through the catalyst first, the fabric filter second, the scrubber third, then out the stack. Im not an engineer, i just do what they tell us to do. The problem going large scale is getting the permits and paying off all the politicians to make it happen.

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWJ View Post
    Is your indicated 10 CFM for a liquid draw, or is that what you draw your exhaust (airborne)fumes at? If you are talking airside exhaust, what FPM do you have you're system calibrated to run? I'd be interested in learning about your specs. Thanks in advance.
    The venturi works on water pressure, but it draws air off a T...

    A pump, pumps water up to a specific height where it is sprayed down the exhaust stack, the sprinkler is off a tee so the water continues, the pressure is high enough to supply both, to a drop down pipe that feeds into a venturi that has a T, as the water shoots through the venturi, it draws 10cfm off the T into the water, so you are effectively mixing the air with the water, then it drops down into a sump where it is suspended in water and forced into the chamber the exhaust is it, then it has to work it's way through the stacked/packed exhaust pipe only to be sprayed down by the sprinkler, when I have a chance I'll make a diagram if there is interest.

    Scott
    Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 12-09-2012 at 10:50 PM.

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    DWJ

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    You can purchase medical incinerators, I have almost done so at auction. It's not the incinerator itself that I have an issue with, there are many different types, sizes, used, etc. It's the EPA requirements. I live in California, near San Francisco. California EPA is extremely strict when it comes to incinerating.

    Scott

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    Thanks for the liniks JGHilino! I like the link to the CHP powerplant very much. I'd love to see a SOO(sequence of operation) spec, as well as a controls diagram/print on that plant. And I realize that's usually considered "sensitive" information, but I'd love to see that info to completely understand it's operational sequence. Thanks again for the info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleMetalWorks View Post
    I recover and refine precious metals and purchase my scrap from scrapers with consideration to how I have to process it. For example, I don't process flatpacks


    Scott
    What are flatpacks ?

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    flatpacks are gpus basically, a fiber cpu without pins is the best way to describe it, i have several pounds of flatpacks ive stripped from boards and removed the built in heatsinks, saving them up for a rainy day i guess

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    What are flatpacks ?
    You forgot to take notes;
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    I'd love to see you're diagram Noble. This 10 CFM number that's come up in a couple of posts confuses me, and maybe this is where I'm making one of my calculation mistakes. To me it isn't keeping a flow of 10 CFM through the wet wash, it is more important to me to keep a velocity rate below 30 FPM regardless of CFM. Further, my testing has shown that it's advantageous to keep the velocity around 6500-8500 FPM through a venturi prior to a wet wash. I'd love to hear comparisons based on experience from anyone out there. BTW, the only cost effective recovery I could expect from my system would be lead from CRT's, and by my math it would take around 300,000 of them a year to pay off my machine(with pure lead @0.55/lb) within 4 years. Dare to dream, it's been fun think about it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanic688 View Post
    You forgot to take notes;
    id call that an ic chip, sounds like our definitions of flat pack vary

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    Quote Originally Posted by jghilino View Post
    id call that an ic chip, sounds like our definitions of flat pack vary
    Here is also another pic of a flatpack; the one above is a quad flatpack. Some places "loosely" call them Ic's.


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  21. #15
    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    What are flatpacks ?
    SMTs (Surface Mount Package)

    Here are some pictures:









    They are usually made of plastic and contain fine gold wires. If processed properly the yields can be decent.

    Scott

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    You would likely have to ship it out of California then, have it incinerated elsewhere, and then shipped back ?

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    There was a recent thread on here of a guy who left the east coast somewhere, and moved his operation all the way to, Idaho I believe it was, just for some similar reason( I think he possibly registered here as a buyer recently)
    Last edited by Bear; 12-10-2012 at 12:57 AM.

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    You would likely have to ship it out of California then, have it incinerated elsewhere, and then shipped back ?
    That's exactly right, or for example, if I purchased a large quantity I would have it shipped directly to my trusted business associate to incinerate, then when they ship it to me it's been reduced so much that it would fit in a small flat rate box. When you ash electronics/plastics, they reduce to almost nothing. You could reduce 25 lbs of plastic to about 1-2 lbs of material.

    Scott

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    haha, that's when you'd have to watch em! I once worked in Homestake Gold Mine, and when a stope was really rich, they wouldn't let the miners back in after a blast, until the guys in white suits had first gone in to retrieve the bits loose enough to carry in their briefcases ; )

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    NobleMetalWorks started this thread.
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    This is the very reason why I no longer toll refine. When precious metals are involved, there are so many shady characters, including the major refineries, willing and waiting for the chance to steal. Because there are so many refiners, large refiners, who rip people off, it gives all refiners a bad name. That means, for the small refiner, that we have to work extra hard if we are toll refining, so that our customers know we are not stealing from them. But here is the other flip side of the problem, people always believe, with their entire being, that there is more gold in their material than their actually is.

    I process material I purchase now, instead of toll refining for others. That way the transaction is done, both parties agree to the price, and there is no cheating anyone out of anything.

    Scott

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