Ewaste?? Was it the next big thing? - Page 3

Ebay is more appealing to me. I just got upgraded to a powerseller.

ewaste has only seen the beginning its very young in its process but its not new us long termers have been doing it for awhile I wish I got in back in the 90's but down stream markets are opening up all the time and specialilty markets for stuff like lcd screens are just starting to begin as we pass through to 2000 era forms of waste.
its those of us who know that prices reflect nothing but a little more work because we can sell mobos and things to make short term money and save our mem hard drive and good processors for long term cash outs that blow away anything for checks we have ever seen before. I am just ranting I guess but for me at least I know that scrap is only increasing is amounts and values everyday and every day I continue to make more money because scrap values have not gone down because markets keep opening to sell more of that scrap for higher prices

Originally Posted by bigburtchino

Is the e-waste side of scrap business sustainable?, Was it just a fluke? Gold and the other PM's had their run and E-waste was just another "Gold Rush"? Is it worth the effort for such a diminished payment? How long before we see those better profits again? 1 year? 2 or will it be 5 years? If we invest in a E-wast business, what will it be like in 20 years? How can I better my return on my efforts and investment? Is it worth it? (heard that one before?).

There's no doubt in my mind that it's both viable and sustainable. My objective from the outset was to set up an environmentally responsible process that could generate just a bit of extra income for a retired fulla. I am getting to an age where it's getting harder to do the "team of one" Iron Man carpentry gig. It's okay for the time being, but the handwriting is on the wall. The day will come that i have to hang up my hammer and go on to something else.

Was reading an article in Forbes magazine a few years ago ..........

Maine and Louisiana were ranked as the two WORST states in the union in which to operate a business. I've been operating a (very) small business here for the last fourteen years and i can see why. There are many factors in the mix. Suffice it to say that it would only take one or two critical errors in judgement to put you under. Most of our new startups fail within the first five years.

Point being: If small scale e-waste works as proof of concept here it should work on a much larger scale in an environment that is friendlier to business.

IMHO, so much of the success or failure of a new venture hinges on prudent management and making correct decisions. You've got to be really tuned in to the world around you because the only constant is change. You need forward vision and be able to accurately predict what the landscape is going to look like in a few years. You have to change and adapt before the next wave of change crests. To do more of the same harder because it always worked in the past is almost certain to be the kiss of death.

I opted to scale back on e-waste this month simply because i can see some problems emerging in this particular business environment.

There are much larger forces than myself in play right now.

Just thought that Id post this link that show the current supply and demand of gold. It helps to put ewaste recycling into perspective in the overall gold market. Gold recycling is about a 1/4 of total gold supply and just a portion of that 1/4 is ewaste recycling (this 1/4 is share with jewelry and other gold scrap). Gold Demand by Country

hopefully it picks back up soon. I picked up about 40 towers, over a half dozen servers, some network stuff and a few laptops last week... and picked up a bunch of appliances and stainless on Monday.

First scrap run for me in about 4 months!?

I've been busy duck hunting and working on my house...


Addicted to quack...

Originally Posted by phred59

I don't want a silver rally yet personally... I'm not done buying yet

I feel you phred I've been on a hot streak with silver and while I DO want it to come back...I could stand to keep buying. There are some industry secrets I am keeping that I've only recently discovered but it will keep me in the game for decades to come. I good scrapper never stops looking for material, maximizing what they have and learning more about what they COULD get. One of you guys told me the real money begins when you start PAYING for material. I cannot agree with that more, e scrap has a stigma as it is with the general public and businesses alike that it's basically gold mining and why should they sell their gold to you for free. So I don't, I BUY IT. Just remember this: Don't get hung up on marginalizing your profits to beat a competitors and don't forget to pay yourself...

Things any good e scrapper should be doing to make a living:

Advertising: Wear a company t shirt, have a business card, use the paper, CL and facebook.

Solicit: Hit up every computer shop in your area to start, build a rapport, move up to small IT supported companies then when you have the coffers move right along to enterprise solutions.

Maximize Labor: This is more important to this subindustry than anything else. You MUST have the fastest tools with the lightest batteries and the most precise chucks (nothing worse than a bit that skips off the head because the chuck bearings are loose...) invest in tool steel bits, precision sets, a well lit workspace and knowing your workflow (order in which you dissassemble, by machine brand and type...everything is important).

EBAY: Hate to say it but this is a necessary evil, if your not selling on ebay as a e waste scrapper your bleeding money. Also realize not everything that should sell will sell, be able to rotate your inventory on a regular basis, this stuff has a definite shelf life. I should also say as a one man operation if you already have a job skip ebay...it eats 20 hours of my week every week.

Reselling Locally: Don't be afraid to go to your material suppliers with components you think are still good. I often trade for material, such as memory sticks for scrap towers. It's a business and your supposed to be offering solutions, that's one of them. I also build computers I've cherry picked and use components I've gained from some of you guys.

Anyways, it's a multifaceted industry so adapt accordingly or you will always be dependant on PMs, which will always be your eventual demise.

Originally Posted by armygreywolf

I look at it like this, I absorb things pretty quickly. This forum has been immensely helpful. In one year I went from two guys struggling to pay our rent and bills scrapping out anything we came across to refurbishing computers, selling boards, refining, working with businesses for e waste solutions doing scrap drives and partnering with shops for wholesale stuff. To call it sustainable, well done right it's much more than that. I will retire on this business and it will likely outgrow me and mine in no time. In two years I plan to incorporate, will have to as I continue to absorb responsibilities and contracts. In five years I want to be refining in house. It's a service I feel needs to be maximized with board purchasing and wholesaling. Nobody can compete with a refiner directly unless they are refining themselves. Beyond that, in ten years I'd like to have a majority stake on every corporate account in the state and I am aggressively forcing my competition to step up or get put out. In a year I will likely be all that's left in Dane County servicing IT departments and repair shops. To those who think you can pick up for free or make them pay? Good luck with that I got nowhere on that business model in the e waste business. I pay, and in paying for certain materials I get alot of stuff free because I don't pay for it but they don't want it...copiers, server cabinets and power supplies, battery backups, etc...bread and butter gentleman. Pay for what you can and don't get all bent out of shape to pay for things you can't...just offer to take that stuff with the rest for free.

PMs will come back up, moreso I just want silver to come back.

To those who say they will use less and less PMs in boards and computer parts...your half right. As computers get faster they become more sensitive to EMF and so on, thus the requirement for a set standard in PM use. Intel sets these standards for their sockets, as does AMD. LGA 1366 boards have more gold than LGA775 because of how sensitive they are at a much lower voltage. From an engineering perspective it's not likely to see more than a marginal decrease in PM use in this industry. Tablets, phones and smaller devices are dense in PMs...you have to expand into the right areas...gold is there it will always be there.

I'm not sure where you got an assay saying this. It is not the precious metals that protect components from ESD or electrostatic discharge, they resist corrosion and increase conductivity more than copper alone can. It is the capacitors soldered to each of the microcircuits (the tiny lines on the board) and if you notice the LGA1366 boards have little if any palladium capacitors on the boards. They are mostly the cheap aluminum "can" capacitors that offer no value but a net negative after processing/shredding the board. My current experience at the e-waste conference suggests that i3-i7 series motherboards hold roughly the same value it costs to process meaning your just spinning your wheels. Shouldn't be a surprise though with the trend over the last few years. Many companies at the conference are moving away from the commodities end (I.e. Scrap) portion of the business. They say even with an automated shredding process they are razor thin margins in the scrap world. This is coming from the senior Vice President of Sipi metals and one of the largest and longest standing eScrap brokers in North Carolina speaking at a seminar for Ewaste business development who would generally want more material for their business.

I heard in the news today that in 2-4 years solar power will be cheaper than conventional power in all 50 states. So perhaps scrapping of solar panels will be the next big thing? There may not be a steady stream of scrap solar panels for another 10-15 years but, if you are ahead of the game in research and facility etc. this could be lucrative.

There will be a tipping point as panels get cheaper and cheaper. It will be like picking up water heaters eventually. They dont go out often but, if every house has solar panels they will be as abundant as scrap water heaters.

I can visualize the future. Almost every home will have a solar panel getting free energy after the initial cost and maintenance. With this energy they will power their electric car and no longer pay for gas. Im liking what the future may hold.

Originally Posted by mrsamsonite

I heard in the news today that in 2-4 years solar power will be cheaper than conventional power in all 50 states. So perhaps scrapping of solar panels will be the next big thing? There may not be a steady stream of scrap solar panels for another 10-15 years but, if you are ahead of the game in research and facility etc. this could be lucrative.

There will be a tipping point as panels get cheaper and cheaper. It will be like picking up water heaters eventually. They dont go out often but, if every house has solar panels they will be as abundant as scrap water heaters.

I can visualize the future. Almost every home will have a solar panel getting free energy after the initial cost and maintenance. With this energy they will power their electric car and no longer pay for gas. Im liking what the future may hold.

I have heard mixed answers regarding recycling solar panels. From what I understand though, the materials that are used in making solar panels have decreased significantly. This is good news for purchasers of new solar panels as they will be cheaper but the scrap materials (silicon) aren't worth much either so many aren't touching them. This isn't definitive though, demand could play a significant role in the future.

There's a possibility we haven't considered yet. That would be government involvement to make a thing which would ordinarily be unprofitable into something lucrative (for a select few.)

In many states you pay a disposable fee on things like car batteries, tv sets ,matresses, tires, and soda containers at the time of purchase.

If you're an "approved recycler" you can collect that fee from the government at the end of life.

It's a game changer.

Electromagnetic radiation is highly dependent on impedance, source frequency, temperature and materials composition so yes as far as PMs are concerned there is a VERY specific socket standard.

And while I don't doubt i series boards return even less metals, let me be kind of a devil's advocate here... SIPI has been taken on aggressively by other nationwide companies and let's have a moment of honesty here...I'm not real likely to believe anything SIPI says as complete truth because it's in their business interests to buy as low as possible. The i series boards could be filled with electrolytics and guess what there's two flatpacks (particularly the northbridge and two BGAs on there that tell me the board will never be "worthless". THat is excluding a land grid array with an engineering standard for it's composition and electocoatings. Even if grinding and refining cost lets say 60 cents on the pound (which it does not in a large operation). you will never ever lose money on a motherboard unless your competition is outbuying you. I also want to point out that the board has 6 to 11 layers of copper trace accounting for up to 30% of the overall "bare board" weight, do the math on that and even if you had to trash every part of the motherboard it's still going to have value.

Motherboards will always have value, but how much and who will be getting that value will change. Boards have more copper layers then the old days, but how thick are those layers and how large are the boards going to be? Go look at a 1980's PC XT board and see how many chips are on it, its weight and size and then compare that to an iphone, ipad, or normal laptop motherboard. People are buying mobile devices more then desktops anymore. Computer sales volumes are going down now for years much of it being taken up by small mobile devices. Companies will need more revenue streams and I think sooner or later they will buy back their old products for recycling to 1: kill the used market and 2: make money recycling materials that are getting more expensive to mine. It might start out a push to keep the environment clean, maybe a tax break for corporations, but sooner or later it will be a discount on a new device (or you pay above list without a recycle). If Apple, Lenovo, and Dell opened up a building where you had to take out old device to get a voucher before purchasing a new one that would cut out recyclers revenue streams along with those people who feed off of it (ebay, local refub guys, smaller scrap buyers etc).

The next big thing is cutting most of the people here out of e-cycling profits.

Around here the "desktop" is making a comeback because more and more people are fed up with everything from battery life to device reliability. A desktop is absolutely superior in cost vs raw power and there is no other way about it. If a device relies on a battery it will be forever limited by it. Likewise thermal displacement. There was a small article about tablet sales over last years holiday that talked about how much the desktop is selling over the tablet at the time. I expect the desktop to command sales once again with windows ten (there will be no 9). Most of that is going to have to do with the fact the "PC" as we once knew it will take a more central role in the home as a device that provides the "meat and potatoes" to smaller devices in the same house. In fact, I fully expect to have sales like we had ten years ago for the rest of the decade.