Direct To Refiners - Page 3

I'm not offended if you are answering my post.......I wish you all the luck in the world.......I hope you make a million dollars in this industry!!!!!!!.....I know nothing about a refiner just what has been posted here.......Normally topics about refining are in the Gold Refining Forum......You will notice that no refiners advertise here to buy material......Look forward to seeing results and pictures of the whole process so I can learn from this forum as I have been for many years now........Either way Ewasted is good option as well as several other buyers (PM me if you want a list of who I would trust).......Shipping is not really expensive and the risk is minimal......Thanks again for being a member and can I suggest become a paid member and support this forum

And just like to add that I was not offended by any of this, I also asked you, Paveitall, to introduce yourself in the proper thread. IMO, when you put your intro here, that could have been taken wrong, like it was. Dealing with refiners usually isn't talked about here, as you can tell, that is usually for GMF.

A lot of this info has been great and it would have been nice for a proper intro, sorry I follow the rules more often than most people, which is probably why I am still a small time e-waste guy. Also, I don't have any silver spoon in my backside.

I'm sure a lot of the members that have chimed in about this thread are probably wondering how your success happen so quickly and from the part of the country that you are in. See the thing that I see a lot on the forum, is the people that have companies have no problem showing that they have a company and everyone can look them up outside of the forum. It's not that anyone is nosey, its just that companies like to look up companies and know what others are doing. So with handling in excess of 10k a month, I would think you would have a full blown company that people can look up. I mean, last year I cleared 35k for the year and that was only because I had a client dish me off a 20k load at one time. But whatever your case is, I would see that people are interested in how you do with a refiner verses a buyer.

I am not intending this in any type of negative way, I only try to speak in a positive word, but like I implied earlier, the good guy finishes last.

Wish you the best of luck with this.

I'm a member of that forum as well.......Never found it very interesting.......I have read thru some of it but was never much into Chemistry or Science......As a matter of fact not very good in Math either so I stick to doing what dumb rednecks do and that is scrap

Originally Posted by alloy2

If you can fry an egg you can refine precious metals.

Well THAT counts me out... every time I try to fry an egg I end up with scrambled. LOL

Originally Posted by Paveitall

Ewasted,

I think the only advantage i can see to sending it to a refiner is keeping more money in my pocket. What i'm trying to determine is the risk and effort variance between a refiner and a buyer. As I see it (I've been wrong before) Risk is the same, i can get screwed just as easily by by both sides. Effort, I still sort and load truck with refiner or buyer?

My situation is probably a little different from most as i reside in a part of the country with very few if any buyers (still looking for one). Ewasted if you were able to come over to our shop and do a monthly buy, i might go that direction. I get really curious when someone tells me its to hard to do, that tells me maybe i should look a little closer.

I think i have made up my mind and i appreciate everyone input on this. Im going to select a refiner and ship as soon as i have 20,000 Lbs (or whatever i can cram into a truckload). Since this whole process seems to be a huge mystery, im going to post my step by step process here. I hope to have a full truckload by October, i will weigh and sort everything going into the truck and report the weights by product (with pictures) here before it ships, you guys can tell me what your buyers are paying for these products that way we can compare the value a buyer would pay to what i ultimately get. Im going to assume i will get some kind of report back from the refiner telling what i sent and the value recovered, i will scan that info and post it here as well. I like being the Guinea Pig and im really curious myself, might get screwed but thats ok we will find out.

Thanks for the solid response!
Here are my thoughts:
You may end up getting less not more from a refiner... with all due respect, your terms will suck. You won't have volumes to make it worth their while. In other words, terms we have will have a much higher probability of netting out a great dollar amount than you can recover. There are items we buy at prices we pay, that you may recover less than what we pay and you are going to feel like you got screwed... well you didn't get screwed.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts as trying to leverage you into selling to us... sure we would like the business, but I really am an awful business man to my own fault. For that reason I am asking clarifying questions. You are going to have to be prepared to lose significant money and NOT be upset... part of being a bad business man allowed me to move on after some tragic results.

At the end of the day, it comes out to what business do you want to be in.

Hopefully you don't end up like U2 (still haven't found what I am looking for) at the end of the process... every single load is a roll of the dice... and don't forget TimeValueMoney!

Originally Posted by alloy2

I can think of several good reasons, going direct to a refinery eliminates how many hands the goods pass through, maximize price thus allowing seller to become competitive in the market.

When I shipped my drum of milled catalytic comb to a refiner in New York, they simply forwarded the drum to Metallix in Carolina, if you think the forward on that drum was free your sadly mistaken. Just one more middle man seeking a living off my back.

What I've learned about refinery's and this is not to say all are the same, listen to the guy your speaking with if he constantly sniffles move along - find another refinery to deal with. Too easy to hide the chronic sniffles via email.

My man in New York did not inform me of the fact my drum was forwarded to another refinery for processing, it came about purely by mistake during a conversation we were having when a company I know in Vancouver B.C. that refines lead - the two names so similar confused him.

Metalex Lead Recycling

Metallix Refining - A Precious Metals Refinery

With all due respect the question was directed towards the original poster. It was a fact finding question as different people are looking for different things. Trying to understand his goals, and not yours, will help us give him some feedback.

Going "direct" does NOT always maximize price, that is a farce. Like everything in life, there is a time and place.

Originally Posted by alloy2

Had you taken the time to read Hoke's Refining Precious Metals Wastes you would have had a better understanding of the chemistry involved in refining gold, silver, platinum , palladium and rhodium. Ms. Hoke wrote her books in the simplest of layman terms.

If you can fry an egg you can refine precious metals.

All the books located on this link are free to download.

C.M. Hoke's books here for download - Gold Refining Forum.com

Great resource... I wish I could fry an egg.

I'm doing good to boil water at this point

One tip I will give here is if you decide to go to refiner do not mix the load with low grade crap. Unless you want to receive a bill from them after the load is done. Also I answered your PM.

Originally Posted by Paveitall

Fair Response Ewasted. Just to clarify, I did not intend to be in the scrap business but i now realize that i am. Your points are very good ones and things i need to consider and go to the heart of my question. If all I stand to gain is 5-10% from sending to the refiner, vrs dealing with a good buyer then i think my decision is simple. But if its 20-30% i might consider alternatives and that's all i was trying to understand.

Posters Remorse - In my ignorance i didn't realize i was asking buyers for answers to this question, that's not a fair question to ask buyers in an open Forum like this. That's part of a buyers business that probably takes many years to perfect and i do apologize if I unintentionally offended you or other buyers here, that was not my intent.

Offensive? YES... hurt my feelings? YES

I couldn't imagine going on a forum that sells a product and ask what they pay for it or how much they make


All sarcasm aside, you are from the outside looking in. The grass is always greener that way. You have my assurance it is not as easy is it appears from the outside... every day we give it the good fight. If you are expecting 20-30% then you have grossly underestimated the competitiveness of this industry.

Personaly I think your biggest profits can be from more then scrap value material. Course I would say this being one of those buyers. But even talking percentages. Depends on the buyer you talk to weather or not you can expect 5% or even 50% more from refining. As a buyer myself I used Ewasted when I first started out. We had many conversations about refining. I got burnt with so called domestic refiners. If its a one time thing defenitly just sell the material to one of us buyers. But I have gotten to the volume needed to make refining viable for me and im willing to take the risks associated with it.

I researched quite heavily on the refining topic.

After all of my research, with the number of pitfalls and ways to get screwed by a refiner (and it isn't a "Will you" it is a "How much will they" scenario)

Your most honest "Scrap to money" trail is Ewasted! Or a local R2 facility if you have one that is as honest and pays comparable!

**I do not work for Ewasted, I do not represent him, but I can vouch for this: Scrap in, weights paid correctly, and timely payments" And that lets me sleep real well at night!**

For me it comes down to storage.........I live in the city and storage is not free........I do not find it feasible to pay to store the material until I had enough to negotiate a few cents better per LB so I just "LET ER RIP TATER CHIP"

Originally Posted by PartTimeScrapper

Personaly I think your biggest profits can be from more then scrap value material. Course I would say this being one of those buyers. But even talking percentages. Depends on the buyer you talk to weather or not you can expect 5% or even 50% more from refining. As a buyer myself I used Ewasted when I first started out. We had many conversations about refining. I got burnt with so called domestic refiners. If its a one time thing defenitly just sell the material to one of us buyers. But I have gotten to the volume needed to make refining viable for me and im willing to take the risks associated with it.

This is where I can many a lot more money, plus I feel that since I am selling the items to a e-waste scrapper anyways, I can continue to tell my clients that "I do not directly remarket anything" it all goes for recycling. If I happen to get paid for better than scrap, then that's part of the buyer. The only thing to be remotely concerned with the downstream trail of it. But "I do not directly remarket anything" and I am sure that my buyer is happy with the stuff I bring him.