Refiner proposal

**rbrooks715** · 01-21-2012, 04:07 PM

I would rather have the metals. <<

a processor does not refine. you could get back a copper dore bar. which you would have to have refined. same thing the processor does. the processor sends that dore bar to a smelter/refiner after they pay you. a few of the larger processors offer hall marked bars or a variety of bullion coins. but the exchange rate is the same or worse than if you just went out and bought on the open market.

Originally Posted by Reelman65

they said you would get everything back including materials used for testing.

impossible. the goal of processing is to remove as much of the non precious metal material as possible. a 2000 lb lot is going to return a dore bar that weighs an average of 250 to 300 lbs. the remainder of that weight has be removed thru a variety of mechanical, thermal and chemical process'. that removed material is gathered at a central locations. meaning that the removed material from your lot is mixed in with all of the removed material from other lots. which is the real concern. the efficiency of the process and if any precious metal is being lost, removed, with the waste material.

if you determine that the recovered value reported is too low, it is already to late. it will not matter if the loss is unintentional or intentional. you are not going to get it back and you have no effective recourse other than to change processors.

knowledge is the key to dealing with processors. if you understand how the process works and can communicate that to the processor, you will reduce possible loss'. there is nothing you can do about the crooks in the business.

**PartTimeScrapper** · 01-21-2012, 08:58 PM

Sound like knowing a good processor is key then. Could you share with us who you prefer to use?

**easyrecycle** · 01-21-2012, 09:06 PM

When they refine your lot (reason why you have to have X amount) when they get it to the base metals they will test it to see what is or what is not there (assay) and they will pay you per that assay.

Yes they can send you the metals back if you request it...but it wont be THAT metal..they will take the metal from a pile that was all ready done and send it to you as YOUR metal. So the metal you get is NOT from the items you sent.

Now...when you deal with a refiner they should pay you just under spot price of the metal..if not..don't deal with them.

they will take out anywhere from 10% to 2% based on the amount you send them, how often you send them and what kind of metals you are sending them. Knowing someone inside the office can be a big help as well on the % of metal you are paid for.

Some refiners charge a weight ticket amount along with a low metal %...meaning this...they will charge you $0.70cents pound $10 for assay and only 1.5 or 2% of metal worth and not take the 10% metal worth...each refiner has there own way of doing it and this can also very wildly based on the metal being refined as well.

**rbrooks715** · 01-22-2012, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by PartTimeScrapper

Sound like knowing a good processor is key then. Could you share with us who you prefer to use?

for smaller lots i would use sipi.

for larger lots i would use xstrata or umicore.

the key is using a good processor. it is more important that you understand how the material should be processed, what the average recovery rates are for material & if the processor is using acceptable procedures that recovers those values.

it is also important to negotiate an over all fee structure that you are comfortable with. if you attempt to force the processor to work at a minimal percentage, you can expect your recovered rates to be lower than average.

everyone has to make money.

**Scrap Master J** · 01-22-2012, 04:10 AM

Buyers are paying around $6 lb for cell phones or $12,000 a ton. Why would there only be a ounce ($1600ish) of gold? I am averaging 6 phones a lb with no batteries for anyone wanting to do more math.

**Scrap Master J** · 01-22-2012, 07:29 AM

Ewasted 1/17 6.25 lb.

**Dumpster-Dee** · 01-22-2012, 11:12 AM

rbrooks, SiPi purports to be a refiner. By your definition they are being deceitful if, as you say, there are no refiners in the U.S.A. What say you ?

**easyrecycle** · 01-22-2012, 11:42 AM

One thing I would like to add to this. working with REFINING companies is risky and should not be taken lightly. There are some good ones in the USA, Canada and even over seas. but you need to be careful and make sure everyone is on the same page. When you send a lot out to be refined you are taking a risk that gold will drop...but gold can also go up. Another issue you need to know....I have had dealings with refiners (wont say there name) that have took my boards and refined them only to come back and say on your whole lot of boards there was only $5 worth of pm metals that we are able to pay you on......they will tell you the world...but bend you over backwards in the end. So you send "test" lots to a set of people you want to see who is good and who is not...and go from there.

Another thing to note...some refiners can not refine all the metals in motherboard as they do not have the right tools (using the word tools to make it simple lol) and in so they can only recover a % of the PM metals.

Never mix up computer scrap for jewelry scrap...just because one can do jewelry dose not mean they can do CPU's. Even some refineries are good with motherboards but suck at doing cpu's. The amount of gold per item and each item needs to be refined in X way to get the top dollar...this why me and other buyers wont spell things out to you....there is alot of learning on what goes where and who to talk to and so on and so on.

Move a head slowly and don't go trusting everything one says.

**rbrooks715** · 01-22-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpster-Dee

rbrooks, SiPi purports to be a refiner. By your definition they are being deceitful if, as you say, there are no refiners in the U.S.A. What say you ?

i posted a response on the terminology being used. and how it is being used. but it seems i hurt that persons feelings and the posts were removed.

**Dumpster-Dee** · 01-22-2012, 02:14 PM

Well, could you put it in layman's language so boneheads like me, and others who may not get things by reading them once, can understand. I don't understand how they can use the term refiner on their website if they aren't one ? Are you saying that "processors" in the US can call themselves refiners but they are really processors. Dang, I wish admin had not deleted those posts...we could have all learned something. I hope it's not too late.
'
'

**ComputerScrapper** · 01-22-2012, 02:18 PM

Oh Dee my dear friend you are anything but a bonehead....Quite the opposite in fact...The refiner, processor, gold recoverer, yada, yada, would confuse Einstein at the very least. Now lets all do the happy gold dance! :-)

**rbrooks715** · 01-22-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpster-Dee

Well, could you put it in layman's language so boneheads like me, and others who may not get things by reading them once, can understand. I don't understand how they can use the term refiner on their website if they aren't one ? Are you saying that "processors" in the US can call themselves refiners but they are really processors. Dang, I wish admin had not deleted those posts...we could have all learned something. I hope it's not too late.
'
'

this forum is not going to allow that information. however, you can easily do the research on the internet. or email me.

we did learn something. we learned that the exchange of information is restricted.

**PartTimeScrapper** · 01-22-2012, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by rbrooks715

this forum is not going to allow that information. however, you can easily do the research on the internet. or email me.

we did learn something. we learned that the exchange of information is restricted.

inbox full

**easyrecycle** · 01-22-2012, 04:21 PM

rbrooks715 I have not openly attacked you but you have done so with me. Let me state some forum rules for you so you know what they are.

Here is the link http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/showt...elines-OVERALL

1 - Don't insult, bash or make rude unnecessary posts towards other members for any reason. If you don't have something positive to say, don't say it, you're wasting your time. We frown upon this type of negativity will zero tolerance and will likely result in someone placing a temporary or permanent ban your account and/or place restrictions on your account.

You are not following this rule and this would not be the first time. Please start following it.

So if you have issues with any one of my post please use the report option and not actively engage the person on open forum as you have been doing so. I am not one of the mods or a admin here so I have no power to delete your posts..if you have an issue with a post being deleted then you need to talk with one of the admins not me.

Thank you and have a nice day.

I am not 21 and our other facts are wrong as well. If you do not stop posting slander I will take legal action. This will be a Cease and Desist request. Request is that you stop posting wrongful information and or legal action will be taken in the state of Texas.

**parrothead** · 01-22-2012, 05:09 PM

I have an idea. To make life much more simple on everyone, why don't the two of you either put each other on ignore or not post regarding each other. I vote on putting each other on ignore.

Some tolerance and a little human recognition will go a loooong way here rather than the constant destruction of threads we are currently seeing. Valid arguments SHOULD be able to be brought up without anyone taking offense to them. A discussion should ensue rather than a pissing match and maybe everyone could learn something from it.

Just my 2 cents and I am not a fan of deleting posts or locking threads. Never have been, never will. So let's all have a little more tolerance of other people's opinions and experience.

We tend to have a good family atmosphere and I for one, along with many that have PMed me during the day agree with that. Let's keep it that way. Please!

I am going back to watching football.

This post is as a member and not a moderator. The moderator in me has given up.

**KzScrapper** · 01-22-2012, 05:18 PM

I have been following this thread pretty close and have read many of the posts that have been deleted. Not favoring either one of you two, what I will say is, Easy if your going to make in the business world your going to have to be able to let things roll of the back a little easier without threatening lawsuits...thicker skin some might say. And Brooks, if I were to say "the sky is blue", I'm sure you could come up with something.

**Mick** · 01-22-2012, 05:29 PM

To both rbrooks and easyrecycle - Please do not aim negative comments at each other. I'm tired of it and will be enforcing the rule enacted by admin that easyrecycle posted. That is to include "disguised" comments.

**rbrooks715** · 01-22-2012, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by parrothead

I have an idea. To make life much more simple on everyone, why don't the two of you either put each other on ignore or not post regarding each other. I vote on putting each other on ignore.

Some tolerance and a little human recognition will go a loooong way here rather than the constant destruction of threads we are currently seeing. Valid arguments SHOULD be able to be brought up without anyone taking offense to them. A discussion should ensue rather than a pissing match and maybe everyone could learn something from it.

Just my 2 cents and I am not a fan of deleting posts or locking threads. Never have been, never will. So let's all have a little more tolerance of other people's opinions and experience.

We tend to have a good family atmosphere and I for one, along with many that have PMed me during the day agree with that. Let's keep it that way. Please!

I am going back to watching football.

This post is as a member and not a moderator. The moderator in me has given up.

a discussion is not possible when only one side is allowed. or when restrictions are placed on only a few.

**PartTimeScrapper** · 01-22-2012, 06:09 PM

I know I for one have learned a ton from this thread. Take the personal attacks out of it and there is still alot of good info here.

**admin** · 01-22-2012, 07:55 PM

I think, in all honesty, rbrooks has valuable information to share, and makes valid points. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree, without taking things to a 'personal' level. When heated discussions become 'personal', posts get deleted. This forum isn't for 'arguments' on a personal level, it's about discussion, learning from one another and sharing experiences/knowledge. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, thoughts, and ways of doing business whether or not those ways or views are identical to someone else's.

I have a feeling some people are taking 'constructive criticism and disagreements' as personal attacks when they're not that way at all, it's a discussion and shouldn't have to turn into an argument.

Rbrooks nobody is taking sides, nobody is on 'your' side or 'his' side as far as moderation goes.

There's no way myself, Andrew or a moderator can personally control what any person decides to post here, what disagreements they have, what one person's view on a particular topic will or should be, nor do we care what one person's views on a particular subject are vs another. When conversations go from productive and on topic to arguments on a personal level, or will likely become an issue on a personal level, everything gets yanked to keep the thread valuable and worthwhile for everybody.

Imagine if when you were searching for or discussing information here, and what started as good know-how and value, turned to negative back and forth half-way through the thread half the time.

This is YOUR forum, let's try to get along and gain value from each other's experience/opinions and stay positive, rather than take things to a personal level. If anyone has an issue with someone on a personal level, personal or business, do it via email, not via PM and not on the forum.

I'm finding lately that more often than not, what's being reported as abuse is NOT bashing or personal attacks at all, but rather a simple and civil disagreement that might actually be one that others can benefit from and that's how it should be.

The motherboard pricing discussion that got cleaned up in another thread, I thought was good discussion and both sides had valid points, which was great UNTIL it started becoming an argument on a personal level.

Originally Posted by PartTimeScrapper

I know I for one have learned a ton from this thread. Take the personal attacks out of it and there is still alot of good info here.

99% of the time, that's why posts get deleted. Besides that it's advertising or spam.

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