heads up on the near future:

**EcoSafe** · 10-04-2012, 01:02 PM

Took a load of computer tin in to Dothan yesterday and had an interesting conversation with the yard manager.

first I will give you a little preface, Alabama is one of the states that has a lower tax rate and fewer restrictive regulations then most other states, that is why they are so attractive to auto and other manufacturers .

when I got to the yard I met with a whole bunch of new regs concerning alu/co radiators, auto radiators (antifreze) etc. They didn't affect me since I don't deal much in that type scrap any more. but the rest of the conversation sent chills up my spine for the small sss scrappers.

I have been selling to Joe for many years and we know each other well. He pulled me off to the side and asked me if I had a business iliscense. In my county in Florida if you live in an unincorperated area no ocupation or liscense is required. State and Fed regulations are a whole nuther can of worms.

To be honest when we require a liscense of some type, my partner owns 7 corporations so we are pretty much covered when necessary.

But back to the point. He asked if I had a business liscense of any type, and said "between you and me get some sort of business liscense shortly according to the letters and talk from the state and fed regulators you may need one as soon as your next trip" "from what I can gather it really wont make much difference as to what business you are liscensed in just so you have some kind of business liscense.

Now here is the real point. If that is true then it is absolute proof the regs primary intend is generating revenue (tax) not protecting the public.

I have been writing about this for years as I watched the regulators tighten the noose on the necks of American small and micro business.

It started at the top by regulating the largest (steel production, mills, clothing manufacturing and others) to the point they had to move out of America or fail.

now they have worked their way down to you.

THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL STATEMEMT , JUST A FACT.

The easiest (in most cases) liscense with the least requirement, the least regulationand the most freedom is a brokers liscense.. the reasion for this is that most of the on the street and lower echilon regulators arnt familiar with just exactly what a broker is. What they can do and what they can't.

get educated and get a liscense .

**volvoscrapper** · 10-04-2012, 05:24 PM

Thanks for sharing that, it's extremely interesting to say the least. Most trade licenses such as these are regulated on a state-by-state basis, for example NJ license requirements here, and nothing is on the books nor pending for private individuals bringing metal to scrapyards at this time. This may be isolated to Alabama? The fact that he mentioned "Fed" is highly unusual, and if he was correct, rather alarming...perhaps it concerns hazmat-related items, or electronics? That's more a question of "when", not "if".

Regardless of all that, thanks again for telling us, and please keep us posted on any new developments!

**EcoSafe** · 10-04-2012, 07:39 PM

it is hard for me to answer this without becoming political but I will try. States are ruled by the fed, even though the 10th amendment makes it unconstitutional. the fed uses 2 primary clubs to accomplish this. One is your own tax money. the second is the commerce law. originally the commerce law was put in place to prevent one state taking unfair tax advantage of another when products crossed their boarders that was the intended use of the commerce clause. what they have done is applied that law to control every thing that crosses a state boarder in any way. the enforcement is supplied by the tax money collected from you The individual nation state citisan. i.e. the U.S. attorneys office tells the Governor of a state, you either pass a seat belt law or we will with hold highway funds until you do. in today's mobile society and trade the commerce clause can be applied to almost any thing you do.

It most certainly will be applied to the scrap industry. where there is a possible source of income you will find hundreds of government lawyers from the city to the federal government attempting to find a way to get more "revenue". just do a little history research, this is not a political statement but, a statement of fact.

**ScrapYaHerd** · 10-04-2012, 07:46 PM

I wonder if my real estate license will work.....hahaha

**EcoSafe** · 10-04-2012, 08:03 PM

actualy it probably could depending on the yard. some realestate needs to be cleaned up. }:<{).

**jaydee1445** · 10-04-2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by ScrapYaHerd

I wonder if my real estate license will work.....hahaha

If so I screwed up by letting mine expire on the 30th

**PistoneScrapProcessing** · 10-04-2012, 08:25 PM

Woah peddlers are the only ones that are ever going to need a license. No industrial scrapper is ever going to be questioned. Its simple cut and dry its to stop stealing by people off the street. Have an industrial account set up in the computer then you wont need a license. I will never need a license nor will I ever be questioned by anyone. I pay a bunch in taxes, workers comp, and insurance. I am pretty sure that covers me.

On a side note good luck with your prices in the south this month. I heard there is a mill trying to push prices down a 100 a ton.

**Bear** · 10-04-2012, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by jaydee1445

If so I screwed up by letting mine expire on the 30th

check with em, there may be a grace period ?

**jghilino** · 10-04-2012, 09:25 PM

I suspect however that escrap is the new target due to the hazardous nature, concerning regulations. Having to have a license or corporation to handle it by volume is a necessary evil. But where do you draw the line on hoarding gold scrap and ewaste. I think its unenforceable at best.

**ScrapYaHerd** · 10-04-2012, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by jaydee1445

If so I screwed up by letting mine expire on the 30th

Oh man I don't use mine but I keep it. You can sit around in your underwear and do the continuing education then it's just a few bucks. Hang it at a joe smoe place in case you ever hit it big and got someone wanting to sell a million dollar house or some other real property.

Oldedude-I like the way you think. Condition of the sale was I had to help clean out.........

**unknownk** · 10-04-2012, 11:12 PM

Regulations are geared toward two things:

1. revenue for the city/state and to control who can do what in large volumes. keeps city dwellers from running a recycling business in their house.
2. keep theft down (especially for those idiots who steal manhole covers and copper plumbing from abandoned houses).

You used to be able to get paid in cash when you braught in a truckfull of beer cans, now its a check.

**miked** · 10-05-2012, 09:02 AM

NC just implemented a new scrap law. Since its many pages I haven't read it yet but its aimed at making it difficult to be a small time scrapper. I expect I will get even smaller and continue to ship out of state selling only steel locally. Two of the rules include any amout over $100 requires a check(easier to track you with) and more than 25lb of Cu repuires a license of some type.

The state and local governments are starving for money and this is a way to bring in more through, fees and fines. It will enable the local governments to inspect home owners property and cite for zoning violations(read make people pay fines) Mike.

**TexasDeere** · 10-05-2012, 11:42 AM

I wonder if this will impact scrapping in Texas? I am a commercial roofing contractor. In Texas, roofers are not required to have a license. Weekly we take in loads of old scrap iron that is removed from our projects. Scrapping has become crazy though. Just yesterday we removed some old penetrations and in 2 hours time, we had 5 different scrapers come by and ask if they could take it. We have stuff walk away all the time once we set it on the ground.

**EcoSafe** · 10-05-2012, 01:58 PM

reminder:

last week they came and took Joe away, he lives on the next block.
but I payed no mind Joe was a big scrapper and they needed to clean that place up.

saturday they came and took Pete away, he lives down the street.
But I payed no mind, Pete scrapped radiators and air conditioners, they needed to clean that place up.

Wed they came and took John away, he lived across the street.
But I payed no mind, He scrapped a little iron and tin now and then, they needed to clean that place up.

Today they came and took me away I save up my pop cans.
but there was no one left to pay any mind, today they are cleaning my place up.

**IdahoScrapper** · 10-05-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by miked

The state and local governments are starving for money and this is a way to bring in more through, fees and fines. It will enable the local governments to inspect home owners property and cite for zoning violations(read make people pay fines) Mike.

Because it's easier to impose fees, fines and other nonsense instead of operating within a budget.

**RustyDollars** · 10-05-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper

Because it's easier to impose fees, fines and other nonsense instead of operating within a budget.

No doubt! They'll also generate license fees and the more lucrative annual license renewal fees.

**TinnMann** · 10-06-2012, 10:31 PM

metal wars

**TinnMann** · 10-06-2012, 10:32 PM

Leave it to the government to take the fun out of everything

**Julie** · 10-07-2012, 06:42 AM

I just took the time to read this post carefully and I'm glad that you started this thread olddude. I've been curious about the whole license thing since I started. The govt (whichever branch/part decides to take it on) will have to set up very specific parameters of what is "ok" to recycle without a license and what's not. I mean that's in essence what scrapping is - recycling. Which is an idea that has been shoved into my brain as long as I can remember and something that they are so adamant that we do to a point where they charge us a "redemption value" fee when we purchase some products as an incentive to curve our behavior. I understand to a certain extent the desire to regulate potential sources of hazardous waste mishandling and things like that because it isn't right that a person can obtain a monitor/tv, take all the "goodies" out of it and just trash or illegally dump the leftovers like the glass tube but pseudo-scrappers are guilty of this daily I'm sure. As for the theft deterrent angle - I don't think that this is a step in the right direction either. Where ever you find thieves they will find a way to peddle the stuff they have stolen. I hate shooting down ideas without offering another one but I honestly don't know what can help stop this. Where I am they have a 3 day hold on non ferrous metals that are turned in and it's not a great idea or anything but I agree with it. The people that own yards need to make themselves accountable and take some personal responsibility here because accepting questionable materials with or without them coming from questionable sources is just as bad as if they were stealing it themselves. Plus, wouldn't license requirements just create an environment for sub-yard transactions to take place? With the people that get the licenses acting as middle-men between individuals and yards. If creating revenue is not the govt agencies' intentions then they should offer a business license that is merely a way to keep hazardous situations in control and prevent theft without taxes and such getting involved. I would have no problem with that sort of license - I know where I get all my materials. I don't even feel comfortable "dumpster diving" without getting the permission of someone who can claim ownership in part or full in some way.

But hey, that's just my $ .02 for what it's worth

**rbrooks715** · 10-13-2012, 11:02 AM

the feds are quietly working on national standards for electronic recycling. i mentioned this a few months ago. the large company's are supporting this action. for obvious reasons.

the current 'proposals' would be 3 or 4 separate licenses. primarily covering the various forms of hazardous material that is contained in the material.

it would require the buyer to hold all material for a specified time prior to releasing payment. payment would be company check mailed to vendors address.

it would mandate a receipt from the buyer for any sales of material to any down stream source. a regulated chain of possession and transfer.

now for the really good part.

it would establish minimum guidelines for who would be required to have a license. they are discussing annual sales of only a $1000 requiring licensing.

license requirements. minimum lot and secured building size based on annual revenues.

bond requirements. the lowest i have heard is $1,000,000. part of which would have to be cash. this is heavily supported by the larger company's. would eliminate a large percentage of their competition.

fines and seizure for non compliance.

while some areas of the country are still lax about his industry, others have passed very stringent laws.

they are all broke. they are looking to collect tax revenue in any manner they can and eliminate tax expenditures for the mess some have left. it is true that it is a been a very small percentage, overall, that has been a problem. but the amount required to clean up that mess has been extensive.

theft and property damage due to scrap prices and poor economy has increased dramatically.

the governments response was predictable and predicated.

the only real question left. how long before new regulations are imposed. not if, but when. and just how bad will they be.

heads up on the near future:

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