Doom and Gloom! - Page 3

Originally Posted by Scrappah

It sounds kind of fluffy but:

If you believe in scarcity you will have scarcity.

If you believe in plenty you will have plenty.

It never ceases to amaze me how well some people from other countries do here in the U.S. They came from places that are really poor and so they grew up in an environment where it's a real challenge just to survive from day to day.They are really hardened. Stick them in the land of opportunity and they thrive & grow rich.

I know others of wealth who will never be happy because no matter how much they've got .... it will never be enough.

So all those migrant workers who pick fruits and vegetables go home rich then?



Everyplace is the land of opportunity for people a few days away from starving who own nothing. The problem starts once you work you way up from bottom and want to keep that level of lifestyle. The recession has proved that the old ways of working hard and getting ahead are long gone.

While ones are crying, another ones are selling scarves...

That's so true army.
I've been forced to learn that here recently.
Iam an old dog
don't like fixing things when there are not broken.
Circumstances have forced me to change what and how I do things.
Turning out to be a good thing.
Actually enjoy the hunt for new opportunities.

Originally Posted by armygreywolf

I wholeheartedly disagree with you unknownk. Let me explain why. I grew up in the 90s, a time of extreme excess... 3 cars, a boat, two four wheelers, snow machines for every family member, 5 credit cards, 2 store cards and 2 jobs in the house. This was everywhere in middle america and I know you guys remember it. However...it was fake. You cannot charge your way to a better life. First. I remind everyone that in today's society our margins are smaller because more people have access to what (ten years ago) gave people an edge in life, business and social activity.

Today it's not so much how HARD you work its how smart you are about it. Putting in hours is fine, and I made good money for a long time doing just that. But when bad times hit you have to step back and figure out what you are doing wrong, or...even if nothing is being done wrong, what can be done better. Most of us, myself included get a certain attitude about things and places and people...but the truth is your shooting yourself in the foot.

If you want to have a better life, and have more you need to learn some fundamentals. Niche markets, networking, quality and service. Frankly speaking...we all complain about how terrible certain companies are with customer service and how difficult it is to deal with so and so. You need to latch on to that and be the polar opposite.

I'll elaborate on this when I get home.

The fundamentals to get ahead have always been having been born with money and connections to other people with money through family and friends. Hard work only gets you more hard work until somebody else will do that work for less and then you are screwed. Niche markets are great if the market that supports it sticks around, problem is those niches will end up in Asia and you are stuck here.

The 90's (when I got out of college) were a blip where companies would hire almost anyone because they were all booming and wages were decent. The problem is that during the 90's is when pretty much everything was offshored and labor collapsed. The decent paying jobs these days are all fake (health care and defense), both industries will collapse sooner or later because they are funded by unpayable debt just like the housing market. Hell even Hollywood is having problems where unless you are a hot A-lister you are not getting work. People who used to be in movies are begging to be on TV just to make a living. How many movies and shows are being made overseas just to cut costs and not employ US labor?

The fact is after generations of people who lived, worked, and died with assets left over for the next generation quite a large percentage of people are dying in debt. This service economy can't live in a vacuum where all the products we buy send our money out of the country and what stays is just swapped around till its gone. There isn't going to be a housing boom or internet boom to get us going again. Stock prices commodities and debt make a few people rich but do nothing for the rest of us, that is where the doom and gloom come from.

Originally Posted by pjost

O

This is so off base I quit reading after the first sentence. Do you have any idea how many wealthy people started from nothing or very humble beginnings?

I don't care what the media or others say. The American Dream is not dead. hard work always pays off in my book.

In the US quite a few during periods of major expansion and growth where people built industries out of nothing (petroleum, automotive, trains, naval construction, airplanes, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, polymers, radar, space exploration, agriculture, etc). Tell me what new industries are coming out of the woodwork these days for people of humble beginnings? The last big one was the internet bubble where people built Amazon, Facebook, Google. Fracking might be bringing in major money but not that many extra people are employed doing that and the boom is over. Green technology is mostly Asian built.

Sure people can still rise from nothing, but they will be bringing up few people with them which is the point I was trying to make.

Bubbles may create quick growth, but there are always opportunities. A lot of successful businesses started during the Great Depression.

I think that eCommerce is the closest thing that we have to "the next big thing".

I also forsee a rise in the need for trucking and farming. Nobody wants to work anymore. We just have a bunch of people who want to aspire to be paper-pushers.
< /Rant>

Amen!

There's always a way. It's no secret- hard work pays off!

I worry when I think of how we'll be 20 years from now. It won't be pretty for a lot of people.

Hard work has always paid off for me.
And still does!
And I love it!
Work hard ! Play hard!

Originally Posted by unknownk

So all those migrant workers who pick fruits and vegetables go home rich then?

Everyplace is the land of opportunity for people a few days away from starving who own nothing. The problem starts once you work you way up from bottom and want to keep that level of lifestyle. The recession has proved that the old ways of working hard and getting ahead are long gone.

The operative word in my statement was " some " people who come from other countries to make a life here.

I know it's not all rainbows & butterflies. It's a hard call as to whether or not i'm a pessimist or a realist but things don't look all that great to me. IMO ... the last generation that had a real shot at the American dream were those who were at the peak of their careers in the 1960's & 1970's. It's been a slipping down life ever since.

You know what ?

None of that matters.

It pales in comparison to the biggest obstacle anyone will ever have to overcome to find real success & satisfaction in life.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

The operative word in my statement was " some " people who come from other countries to make a life here.

I know it's not all rainbows & butterflies. It's a hard call as to whether or not i'm a pessimist or a realist but things don't look all that great to me. IMO ... the last generation that had a real shot at the American dream were those who were at the peak of their careers in the 1960's & 1970's. It's been a slipping down life ever since.

You know what ?

None of that matters.

It pales in comparison to the biggest obstacle anyone will ever have to overcome to find real success & satisfaction in life.

I don't think it's a generation thing. If a family or person has money issues, it's from lack of knowledge and discipline. Not the type of job they have or not have. We chose to use credit, we make a choice to be "slave to the lender", we don't have to. Just because that's what our parents have done. Doesn't mean we have to. Best financial people in my life was prob my grandparents. My grand father NEVER had a loan in his life. Owned a house owned cars/trucks. Passed with a lot of money in the bank. Worked 1 job, not a great wage.

The economy hurts us because we chose to have dedt, instead of doing without until we can pay cash. Plain and simple

People without credit card debt keep forgetting the country has plenty of debt they are stuck with. While you don't pay it directly eventually the government will default and if you are still alive that will have great affect on your savings, investments, and lifestyle.
When the USSR collapsed peoples savings were basically worthless.

Well .... the generational thing is a factor. Up until the early to mid 1960's the standard was that the woman stayed at home and the man went to work. A family only needed one wage earner.

As i remember, it was sometime in the 1970's that you started seeing more and more women entering the workforce. You could say that it was the woman's lib movement but i think it was more out of economic necessity. Something changed and they now needed two wage earners to support a family.

Another change that i've seen is that the transfer of wealth from generation to generation has been interrupted. It used to be that grandpa's house would go to one of the children or grandchildren. A piece of property would stay in the family for six or seven generations that way. You don't see that much anymore with all of the reverse mortgages.

If you think about it .... having a house given to you when you're first starting out is one helluva boost.

You're right though ..... it's all about the choices you make. If you make good choices you stand better chances of doing well in life. Poor choices can haunt you for a lifetime.

Probably the most important thing though is your attitude. A positive mental attitude coupled with a strong work ethic will take you a long way. If you've got a negative mental attitude it's always " I can't ", "I won't", " I'm not worthy", "I'm afraid" and so on. There's a hundred different ways in which people sabotage themselves.

To put it another way:

Argue for your limitations and you shall have them.