Texas Scrappers

Kris Kringle · 06-07-2011, 10:51 AM

I kinda Hope this bill passes here that way it will weed out a lot of Vegabond scrappers here.

TEXAS (Scrap Monster): Small recyclers have stated that by combining the HB 1933 and SB 694 Bill, the small recyclers are threatened as they have kept the 10 day hold on cash payouts for scrap metal and 5-day hold on checks. It spells doom for the small recyclers in Texas and benefits the big recylers, they said.

The SB 694 was worked on with the input and effort of law enforcement (City and State) prosecutors, and industry while the House Bill 1933 has been developed for the sake of special interest groups.

"As an industry, recyclers are opposed to any metal theft and are trying to take a proactive position in regulation and even prosecution of the thieves and identification of the metals. There are 2 proposed bills, SB 694/ HB 1933, that are working their way through Congress," a recycling industry official said.

The Senate Bill 694 was enacted to effectively solve crimes and increase accountability of bad actors, thieves and businesses alike and is aimed at curbing metal theft. There are many laws on the" books" now that are not enforced and HB 1933 is another much more random bill that does not have the blessing of the major police departments or the recycling industry, recyclers said.

Any law will only deter crimes, not stop them. The proponents of HB 1933 are using scare tactics like the ruination of civil order as we know it and complete interruption of 911 services to help with emergencies. There are loopholes with any law, but The SB 694 will by far be the most effective, recyclers added.

Per State law enforcement statistics-

-90% of metal theft is related to HVAC which are regulated property and require bills of sale to prove ownership

- Communication wire is regulated with bill of sale requirements as well

-Only 15% of Recyclers are registered with the state which SB 694 addresses to make it a crime not to register-HB1933 is silent on this issue

- Pictures of material, vehicles, and sellers and valid ID's are required in SB694 and not addressed in HB1933

**rca987** · 06-07-2011, 11:05 AM

Interesting..

**easyrecycle** · 06-07-2011, 11:13 AM

This is not good for more than one reason. The more paper work I have to file the higher cost I will have keeping it. Its not cheap and some people may not understand that.

Doing the pay hold is not very helpful either.

Dose something need to be done...Yes..done like this..no.

Kris Kringle · 06-07-2011, 11:33 AM

Thats Ok If the Pay is Held out Just Bring your Scrap to me You wont have to Wait on your pay I will pay same day it is bought to me Of course not at 20% Below LME or Conex Prices

**easyrecycle** · 06-07-2011, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Thats Ok If the Pay is Held out Just Bring your Scrap to me You wont have to Wait on your pay I will pay same day it is bought to me Of course not at 20% Below LME or Conex Prices

Not sure you would be able to buy as much as I send out. I dont have to worry about my pay being held for the most part as I am a dealer not the public. But I still dont like this law. If it takes affect all yards have to follow it and I have a few people who will buy items...scrap it and bring it to me..I buy it they take the money they just made an go buy more an come back to me with more stuff. If I have to hold there pay for "blank" days there turn around time on items they can bring me would be docked big time. It could mean my shipments would be held up as I wont send a half load out to be refined

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 12:17 PM

be very carefull what you wish for here. what more is nessessery for identification then IDs and Photo/video. if they cant catch a thief with Id and video, they are not going to catch him reguardless of what regulations and laws they pass, regulations and laws only apply to honest people. outlaws will find a way arround them. I an a small euntrapranuer and always have been, I love the start up factor in small business, the challenge. I have been regulated out of profit in more businesses then I can remember.

If you are a big yard with a lot of resorces, to you it is just one more hoop one of your office girls has to jump through, and a few more bucks in expence you have to pass along to someone else. If you are a small timer regulations like this are death to your business. once regulation of aan industry starts it is like a leak in a dam. Look around, wake up, America is beeing regulated out of business. regulation is suppused to be for safety sake and protection of the general public, not protection of big business like it is used today. There are already citys and countys in this country where only corporate refuse companies are allowed to pick up any thing. How many people and families lost their means of income by them.

It is not just the regulations but the regulating agencies and their employees and enforcers. It is human hature to make your job as easy as you can, and so do they. The easiest way to keep the bad guys out is to keep every one out.

Kris Kringle · 06-07-2011, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by easyrecycle

Not sure you would be able to buy as much as I send out. I dont have to worry about my pay being held for the most part as I am a dealer not the public. But I still dont like this law. If it takes affect all yards have to follow it and I have a few people who will buy items...scrap it and bring it to me..I buy it they take the money they just made an go buy more an come back to me with more stuff. If I have to hold there pay for "blank" days there turn around time on items they can bring me would be docked big time. It could mean my shipments would be held up as I wont send a half load out to be refined

Where in my Post Did I Mention Dealers? Oh thats right I Didn't Mention Dealers I Mentioned Vegabond Scrappers. Also congrats on Being in one of Texas 15% Of Registered Recyclers.

**dherik** · 06-07-2011, 01:39 PM

Regulations on those who follow the law/rules anyway is pointless.....

Take CRT's for example. If you're going to scrap a CRT monitor do you really care how it's recycled? Not likely, but a lot of states have these regulations on those of us who do follow the law and that regulation just costs us money. But I can't count how many CRT's and TV's I saw on the curb this weekend with the tubes smashed, all the yokes ripped out and the boards gone.

**easyrecycle** · 06-07-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Where in my Post Did I Mention Dealers? Oh thats right I Didn't Mention Dealers I Mentioned Vegabond Scrappers. Also congrats on Being in one of Texas 15% Of Registered Recyclers.

I know you said not dealers but I think you missed the point on the fact that there are people who bring me items and they need the money to go and get more. If I have to hold up there money they will not be able to bring in as much as they buy and then sell it to me for a high profit.

**Mick** · 06-07-2011, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by easyrecycle

I know you said not dealers but I think you missed the point on the fact that there are people who bring me items and they need the money to go and get more. If I have to hold up there money they will not be able to bring in as much as they buy and then sell it to me for a high profit.

But where else would they take it? They'll simply adapt, if they know this upfront. It's not like they can do anything else (legally) as easily and get paid as much any quicker.

**Dumpster-Dee** · 06-07-2011, 03:43 PM

thank you for starting this Kris Kringle and to the others for intelligent, educational and lively contributions...very interesting topic

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 03:44 PM

no mick once the regs start to mount up you are right thay cant go any where else or do any thing else, they will then become outlaws, drug dealers or welfare junkies.

desperate people do desperate things. 20 years ago i could take a $100 dollar bill and start and grow any one of a thousand businesses. today that start up is $1000 to a Million depending on the number of regulations and regulators, $1000 may not be much to you but to me and many many others in these hard times $1000 could be a life changer.

2 quotes come to mind here from people a lot smarter then me.
1. "those who are willing to give up a little freedom for security will end up with neither." Benjimen Franklin.

2. Those who beat their swords into plow shares will end up plowing for those who didn't. Thomas Jefferson".

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 04:14 PM

lets take CRT tubes for example. if instead of spending 10 million dollars trying to regulate them, which we and they all know they cant sence regulations only effect those willing to follow them, spend the 10 million on research and find a profitable way to recycle them. and seperate the glass from the lead, I know they have different melting points. by doing this they create a whole new industry which will employ thousands after all wasn't all this stimulis money supposed to creat jobs, not more regulations ?

**Mick** · 06-07-2011, 04:23 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for regulation for the sake of regulation. As a clue - I live in the woods of Maine and where I do, by choice and for a reason. I'm actually pretty self-sufficient. But what I'm saying is that to argue against some thing like this, use a valid argument. In any business, there is an expectation that there will be a lag between service/goods delivery and payment. Even working for wages, there's often a 3-week period before getting your first paycheck. As much as I'm against regulations/rules, I want to see (scrap metal) thieves caught and convicted even more. As Easyrecycle is probably aware, scrap metal dealers face a payment lag anyway. This would not affect them.

As a case in point, I when I sell batteries to Exide, it's understood by agreement that payment will take six weeks from pickup. It's just a factor of doing business.

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 04:44 PM

well and good, however the small timer like me isnt doint this to feed his children next month he is doing it to put food on the table today. and these type regulations will only hurt those most vonerable, the honest will stay honest untill they are forced to be otther wise. all others wont adhear to the regulations any way, or will find another way to make needed money. i would rather have the homeless guy picking up cans along the highway then breaking into my frige to get something to eat, during my 67 years, I am not proud to say I have done both.

Kris Kringle · 06-07-2011, 04:48 PM

Ok I wont try to piss anyone off But I cant make it any plainer then this If they Do Pass these bills and people have to wait for their money given two choices

Sell to me Get your Money Today is choice Number 1
Or
Sell to Them and Wait For 5 Days to be Paid in Check Or wait 10 Days to be Paid in Cash

What Option do you think Most People would Take?

I Would say a majority would want the Cash now. With the way things are Today You never know If Tommorrow a Business will be in Business Next Week. {Of Course When I play the Lottery I always Pick The Cash Value Option Instead of the 20 Year Payments}

I am not saying anyones Logic is Right or Wrong in this Just saying Why I hope it Passes

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 05:07 PM

dont take this the wrong way but your way of thinking is the real reasion for most regulations, pound on the little guy and keep him down so the big guy can make more money and pay more taxes, and buy more permits for more regulations.

I do not begrudge you your position, you earned it or you wouldnt be there, but as you said in your own words, the regulation, will help you at the expence of those smaller then you which is exactly what I have been saying. Lets look a the possable unintended concoquences here, which is something regulators or Governbment never seems to consider. senario: they pass the regulations you want. Instead of waiting for their money, most wont , and instead of selling to you they just quit. and turn to something else legal or illegal. who is affected by this. 1 you because you have less product brought to you. 2. the guy and his/her family they are out food mondy or what ever. 3. the community because less junk will be removed. 4. the community again because some of those will turn outlaw, or suck more welfair 9there you will suffer a double whammy) 5. the person regulated out of business because he was able to hold his pride in tact with honist work and business, and now has to look for other options, some not good. we cant frill for oil so we pay $4 for gas, we cqnt make cloths any more, so we send the jobs to india or china, same with most other business, and it is due largely to regulation. We have become a nation of hamberger flippers with few exceptions in between, what you are hoping for is to eliminate one more of those exceptions. Sry there is just no clearer way to put it.

how is this regulation going to help you. if all others have to wait the 10 days to pay, why dont you have to.

Kris Kringle · 06-07-2011, 05:29 PM

1. Hmmmmmmmm I AM NOT A BIG GUY IN THE Scrapping Business Where did I ever say I Was?
2. If I remember in some Of your Previous Post YOU Sir Had Complained About Not Being Able to Make any Money In this Business {you Blame that On Gov Regs Also}?

3. how is this regulation going to help you. if all others have to wait the 10 days to pay, why dont you have to. WHO Said I Wouldnt Have to Wait For My Money?

I can afford to Buy Stuff from say Other Lil guys in the Business and Wait the 10 Days Out Or the 5 Days out

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 05:40 PM

Im not trying to be dissagreeable or argumentitive, I an just trying to get the point of the danger of over regulation across. Maybe this will help. just a few years ago in the state of Ca for example, a person of lower means could go out and buy a food cart for $1500 and set up a little business supporting their family selling hot dogs, tocos or what ever on a street corner. not one person ever died from eating at one of these carts, however, the reastaurants obviously didnt like the compitition so they went to the restaurant/hotel lobby. and with the right ammount of money and pressure ( the people on the corner had neither money or pressure) and strted to ask for regulation. little by little overa 5 year period, more and more regulations were made, Today the cost of a hot dog/food cart in ca is $10,000 and up so the little guy has no choice but to become a pirate business. now the big boys are eqting away at thos left with $100,000 dollar taco trucks. This all happened not because some one was harmed or to protect any one other then the restaurants. Once the regulations start you are seeing the beginning of the end of all but a very few and most likely unless you have millions to invest you are one of the many not the few.
sry for the rant but I have seen this time and time again in the last 60 years.

**EcoSafe** · 06-07-2011, 05:52 PM

what I stated in the other post had nothing to do with regulations in the post, i simply said as times get tougher, every one will become a scrapper and the compittion will get crazy. dot believe I ever said I couldnt make money, what I said was noobs wo buy and pay too much for scrap, not knowing what they are doing are not making money and there fore making it harder on the rest of us small guys. and now I know why you are in favor of the regs. to me if you can pafor scrap and then wait 10 days for your money then to me yes you are a big guy to me. and many of us. I may add that I am happy for you and envy your sucess, but glad for it, I need people like you but you need us too so please do not regulate US OUT OF BUSINESS.

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