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There's no reason why overpopulation can't be discussed here but thinning the herd comments are unacceptable and your "apology" was half assed. Like I said before there is an edit button. If you want people here to take you seriously remove the comment and try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyheim
I apoligize if it seems like i'm singling you out. I'm really not.Quote:
Originally Posted by APA
I would like to respond to this point though. This seems like politics and finger pointing. People playing the blame game. One official in the Chinese government recently accused the U.S. military of planting the virus in Wuhan.
Just imagine if you will : We, as a people and a nation, being put on trial for our deeds during this crisis. Is this how we would want to be remembered ?
History will judge us.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...countable/amp/
Read this article and make your own judgements.
<sigh>
Later edited to add:
Okay, i'll try to explain another way. We're all in the same boat here. ( This tiny little rock hurling through space.) A problem has come up. We can do a couple of different things. We could play the blame game -or- we could work together (internationally) to address the problem.
Which is a better choice ?
The Chinese government and much of the Islamic world is at war with the west.The truth seems unpopular to state these days, but when one of the participants tell us in no uncertain terms of their goals to destroy capitalism, and the other tells us in no uncertain terms their goal of death to infidels, one would have to be consciously obtuse not to see the likelihood of their culpability.Quote:
Originally Posted by hills
And the place where is started continues to lie and be corrupt. I agree that we should all help each other but some governments have not from the beginning of this situation.
Judging by your response:
You still want to play the blame game.
It's totally your choice. I respect that.
Taiwan, South Korea and the US all discovered Covid-19 cases around the same day but only the first two acted like it was important and took measures to test, track and suppress transmission and are experiencing vary mild disruptions because of it. The US did close to nothing for around a month and a half. China's failings in this are many and some are unforgiveable. But they are also out of our control and the measures taken in places like Taiwan and South Korea shows that there was enough time and information to take action. So yes blame China for what they've done wrong but China isn't the reason that Nevada where I live is expected to be hit worst so far as the economic part, that's because the US, like the UK and Spain and some other countries also now reeling, response was to just do nothing but watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by APA
"Overpopulation" only makes sense in the context of overconsumption. Otherwise you'd just be saying, "Meh, is too many people I think." But the vast majority of the world doesn't consume massive amounts of resources. It's wealthy countries like the US and European countries and Persian Gulf monarchies with high per capita rates of resource consumption (though China is catching up!). So overconsumption isn't related to overpopulation in practice. So your calls for a "culling" are not just cruel but arbitrarily cruel since they can't have any meaningful effect on overconsumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyheim
Gee ... i think i would have to disagree on that point.
I tend to look at it the way a naturalist would. Take a black bear for instance. It takes quite a bit to keep his belly full. He needs a certain number of square miles of land for forage. Put two bears into that space and they're going to have to fight for that territory.
It's the same thing only different with humans. The Gaia can only provide resources for a limited number of humans. I'm not talking about the fancy stuff. Just the basics like food, water, shelter, and fire. Clean drinkable water is a problem in a lot of places right now. What ... figure an average of one fire per human ? That's over seven billion fires burning, spewing out heat, and making air pollution. We can genetically engineer our crops to produce twice the yield per acre but what about when that isn't enough ?
Let me ask a question: Could the land Las Vegas is built upon sustain the human population above -or- is it inherently out of balance with it's natural environment ?
What would happen if the supply chain going into Las Vegas were suddenly cut ? No food ? No water coming in ? No electricity ?
China is the one playing games. My choice is to say the Chinese government is full of lies and corruption. It’s difficult to work with someone when they are proven to be that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hills
< shrugs >
Some people unite and work for harmony. Some people create divisions & chaos. It's just what they do.
We all have our part to play.
You may recall that some of the first attempts in this country to react to the situation were met with accusations of xenophobia and racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJinLV
Or, you may not remember those facts at all.
... and the places where the disease has taken the strongest hold are the places that were the most vocally and obstinately resistant and reluctant to enforce the protections from incoming travelers.Quote:
Originally Posted by auminer
You won't catch me defending the existence of Las Vegas lol. Most countries have massive food surpluses. The US for example wastes 30-40% of its food production every year. We currently have problems of insufficient access not insufficient quantity. We often forget that Ethiopia was a net exporter of wheat during its 1980s famines because the problem was an economic inability to obtain food, not an insufficient quantity of it. Another example, on any given night there are about 550,000 homeless people in the US and currently around 17,000,000 empty homes and that doesn't count the huge number of homes being used for airbnb and other 'short term rental'. The problem is access, not quantity. Overpopulation is a myth. Overconsumption is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by hills
I recall racism and xenophobia being met with accusations of xenophobia and racism. Testing, tracking, tracing and quarantining is not what the government did nor suggested and that would have drastically reduced the need for the kind of measures we're now seeing in countries like the US, UK, Iran, Italy, France and others that reacted late or poorly. Pertinent to this thread, I might have still a job right now were it not for the sloppy response but alas I am laid off. Which reminds me I need to empty my buyer's thread....Quote:
Originally Posted by auminer
Best I know there are more unicorns in this world than honest governments.Quote:
Originally Posted by APA
So, anyone who disagrees with you is racist and xenophobic.... SIXHIRB is a bully's favorite weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJinLV
Interesting discussion and I wanted to add a perspective. I did not comprehend the seriousness of the situation until recently. From this view it is hard to fault our countries leaders for their decisions especially since I do not have all of the information.
I am one of the at-risk individuals. As far as culling the herd, nature has used this tool repeatedly throughout history and even before. I am following the government recommendations, not because of fear for myself, but to avoid responsibility for the damage I could do to others. Dealing with a virus that targets the elderly and weak is better than one that targets the entire population. Would it hurt if I lost my wife or friends from the virus - yes. At the same time it would not hurt as much as losing a grandchild that has not had the opportunity to enjoy the life that many others have. My generation would accept our fate in order for future generations to flourish. Therefore culling the herd is not insensitive, just a fact of life.
In regard to over population or over consumption, mother nature will take care of it.
Well said...:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot76