Property Rights

I have lived in my home for 25 years and a gentleman down the street has lived here all that time and longer. He has been a horder/scrapper the whole time I have lived here. I am on a first name basis and am friendly with the man.

The area has grown over that time to a point where what was one a fairly rural area hes become more suburban. Someone has complained to the point where the county is coming after the man with large fines in an attempt to drive him off his property ($250K... this is going by what he has told me just today, and I really have no reason to doubt what he says. His yard is a mess, but it is HIS yard). He asked me to write him a note to bring to court as a note to what I think of his character and my opinion of the issue as he presented it.

This is the note I wrote:

To Whom It May Concern,

I understand there have been complaints regarding a The Guy, His Address. Mr. Ward has never been a bother to me or been in any way detrimental to our neighborhood in any way I am aware of. I have peacefully existed with Mr. Ward for 25 years and I do not believe he should be harassed for living his life in a way others may object to so long as no one is harmed, and no one has been harmed that I am aware of.



This is the United States of America and he has the Constitutional freedom to pursue happiness within the boundaries of his property. He has been here as long as I have, and I know that with very few exceptions, anyone who complains moved in fully aware of the presence of Mr. Ward.

My name, address..

I am interested in your thought on the letter and any changes I might consider before printing it and leaving it for him to use to help his case

Thank you.

I've seen this before. You get new people moving in and they want to remake the neighborhood (or community) in their own image. It's pretty selfish and self involved to think that your neighbor ought to change just to suit you. Those kind of newcomers are troublemakers. When you tell em' to piss off they get on the phone and try to bring the government down on your head.

Whether that plays or not depends on the values in your community. I've heard that you can be fined for not mowing your lawn in parts of Florida. If that kind of thing is the accepted community value in your area then it's not looking so good for your neighbor the hoarder.

It's a hard call. We had a similar thing here recently. There's an old curmudgeon with a rundown property down in the center of town. He's okay to get along with as long as you treat him with dignity and respect. If you're one of those people who looks down on him then he will go out of his way to make things difficult. He's made more than a few enemies over the years.

In a way, he's kind of the onion in the petunia patch now. It used to be that the downtown area was a real honest to gosh Maine fishing village filled with real down to earth people who worked hard for a living. They didn't give a darn if a place was run down because their own properties weren't that special either. Things have changed. Millions of dollars of outside money have flowed into that area in the way of property development. Those people ... the ones pumping money into the community ... they have their rights too. Old Mr Cranky just flips them the bird.

Eventually the community leaders reached a compromise. They hired a landscape architect who did some very tasteful work that blocks the view of Mr. Cranky's property so that it's not such an eyesore to his neighbors. He calls it the hate fence. Others call it an improvement. Guess it all depends on your outlook.

What's the deal with the 250 k. in fines T ?

See it's one thing to do your own thing on your own property. It's another thing to cause harm to your neighbors. Is there pollution running off from all of the hoarded stuff onto his neighbor's property or is it just an eyesore ?

I don't think so. This was all out in the sticks when I got here and there is no HOA (One of the reasons I bought here). He just has a property full of junk, literally a junk yard. I would love to haul trailers of junk out to the scrap yard. He has had spillover on the road in the past but has cleaned it up since he has been being hassled. The cars and trailers have been a pain in the ass, but it has been over the past few years as traffic has increased that it has been a bit confining on the small (once rural) road. I told him to keep the crap off the side of the road to help keep him from being a spectacle that draws attention. He said he would. As far as an eyesore, he has a fence that is a bit tired, but it still hides the yard if you don't look too hard. It just pisses me off that the poor guy can't do what he wants on his own property.

I pretty much agree. What you do on your own property is your own business. The thing is .... it doesn't give you the right to harm others.

IDK ...i think i would try to look at both sides and weigh it fairly. I'm not there but i'm wondering of he's being selfish and inconsiderate to his neighbors. I would look at the nature of the charges against him and see if there's anything to it.

You know how it is with junk vehicles. The brake lines, fuel tanks, batteries,and cooling systems all eventually fail and dump the contents on the ground. That gets into the water table and pollutes the neighbor's well. The water table is pretty close to the surface in your part of the country.

It's a trend though .... today the tight arses are hassling the neighbor. A year from now it might be you. Better to stop it in it's tracks before it gets to be a problem.

Originally Posted by Scrappah

I pretty much agree. What you do on your own property is your own business. The thing is .... it doesn't give you the right to harm others.

IDK ...i think i would try to look at both sides and weigh it fairly. I'm not there but i'm wondering of he's being selfish and inconsiderate to his neighbors. I would look at the nature of the charges against him and see if there's anything to it.

You know how it is with junk vehicles. The brake lines, fuel tanks, batteries,and cooling systems all eventually fail and dump the contents on the ground. That gets into the water table and pollutes the neighbor's well. The water table is pretty close to the surface in your part of the country.

It's a trend though .... today the tight arses are hassling the neighbor. A year from now it might be you. Better to stop it in it's tracks before it gets to be a problem.

He tells me the cars in the yard are tagged. My neighbor can drive a tagged clunker that he has to add a quart to drive every day, so I don't really see how they can cherry pick his cars for pollution. He is not doing anything other than collecting scrap on his yard, and truth be told, it is not like he is bringing in a ton of stuff that you would consider trouble. Stoves, DW's, MW's, sinks, fridges, AC's, just scrapper stuff.

That said, I was hoping for input on the note. Good idea? Bad idea? Too harsh? What do you think? If this guy lived down the street from you, would you stand up to give him a hand? It would seem to me that every one of you could run into the same kind of trouble.. I could. My place is the same as his. I have a corner lot.. Check. I have a fence... Check. I have a shop... Check. I can accumulate a load of scrap I keep in the yard... Check. Apart from my road being a little less traveled and the BS on the road, we are both in a similar situation.

If there is something glaring there I should not put in or something I left out, please feel free to let me know.

It's a good note T. Clear and to the point. What else could you say ?

The idea that he should get a lawyer is a good one.

If the yard is as full of junk as you say there could very easily be a rodent problem. Rodents are nasty, and carry all kinds of diseases which can affect humans. One cannot be "grandfathered in" when the health and well being of the public is at risk. In addition, we have yet to recognize the fact that over a course of years, many of the junk cars he has sitting on his property break down structurally, and there is a risk of oil, gasoline, and other fluids leaking and being spread to adjacent properties. You even called this gentleman a hoarder, and being a hoarder isn't exactly a positive concept.

Your note is a good one t00nces, well written and precise. I think what would help is more is if more people would/could write one. Maybe get more neighbors on board? The more character witnesses he has the better. Best of luck in winning this one.

Originally Posted by t00nces2

The amount of fluids from one car are inconsequential. There are gallons of fluids leaked on to every road... On every road that get washed into the soil every time it rains... Day after day after day after day. Over ten years, the amount of fluids that would leach into the soil from one car would be the equivalent of a mouse fart in a hurricane. Common sense is not too common anymore, so I'm not convinced this poor guy isn't going to get screwed by the county.

A smart man wouldn't take on a fight that he knows he's gonna lose. The common sense thing would be to negotiate and reach compromises.

ie: Junk cars.

Drain the fluids and pull the battery if they're not being used. Simple solution to the problem.

The note is proper.

Originally Posted by t00nces2

I have lived in my home for 25 years and a gentleman down the street has lived here all that time and longer. He has been a horder/scrapper the whole time I have lived here. I am on a first name basis and am friendly with the man.

The area has grown over that time to a point where what was one a fairly rural area hes become more suburban. Someone has complained to the point where the county is coming after the man with large fines in an attempt to drive him off his property ($250K... this is going by what he has told me just today, and I really have no reason to doubt what he says. His yard is a mess, but it is HIS yard). He asked me to write him a note to bring to court as a note to what I think of his character and my opinion of the issue as he presented it.

This is the note I wrote:

To Whom It May Concern,

I understand there have been complaints regarding a The Guy, His Address. Mr. Ward has never been a bother to me or been in any way detrimental to our neighborhood in any way I am aware of. I have peacefully existed with Mr. Ward for 25 years and I do not believe he should be harassed for living his life in a way others may object to so long as no one is harmed, and no one has been harmed that I am aware of.

This is the United States of America and he has the Constitutional freedom to pursue happiness within the boundaries of his property. He has been here as long as I have, and I know that with very few exceptions, anyone who complains moved in fully aware of the presence of Mr. Ward.

My name, address..

I am interested in your thought on the letter and any changes I might consider before printing it and leaving it for him to use to help his case

Thank you.

Your neighbors messy yard is detrimental to surrounding property values, if you want to support your friend pay the $25.00 to have a lawyer write your character reference letter.

I agree that his property status should fall under the grandfather clause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause

A grandfather clause (or grandfather policy) is a provision in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations while a new rule will apply to all future cases. Those exempt from the new rule are said to have grandfather rights or acquired rights. Frequently, the exemption is limited; it may extend for a set time, or it may be lost under certain circumstances. For example, a "grandfathered power plant" might be exempt from new, more restrictive pollution laws, but the exception may be revoked and the new rules would apply if the plant were expanded. Often, such a provision is used as a compromise or out of practicality, to allow new rules to be enacted without upsetting a well-established logistical or political situation. This extends the idea of a rule not being retroactively applied.
The term originated in late nineteenth-century legislation and constitutional amendments passed by a number of U.S. Southern states, which created new requirements for literacy tests, payment of poll taxes, and/or residency and property restrictions to register to vote. States in some cases exempted those whose ancestors (grandfathers) had the right to vote before the Civil War, or as of a particular date, from such requirements. The intent and effect of such rules was to prevent poor and illiterate African-American former slaves and their descendants from voting, but without denying poor and illiterate whites the right to vote. Although these original grandfather clauses were eventually ruled unconstitutional, the terms grandfather clause and grandfather have been adapted to other uses.