Looking into legality of electronics recycling

**mthomasdev** · 06-28-2020, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by kss

I was starting to poke around on what it would take for me to be able to collect electronics on a larger scale, legally (like advertising to schools, businesses, etc). I have concluded that doing things legally is nearly impossible for small operations. This discourages competition and encourages less recycling overall.

I understand that things need to be recycled properly, and am 100% willing to put in time/training/effort to make sure that everything is done right and responsibly, but after looking into what all would be required today, it seems impossible for any non-existing, very profitable, businesses to operate in this market legally. Have a look at everything that would be required for me to legally collect and recycle electronics in my area.

1) get local permit to designate my garage as a legal place of business (required to provide proof that business is operating and properly zoned, for the next hurdle) (few hundred bucks)
2) get state permit allowing me to collect and recycle covered electronic devices. This requires R2/Esteward certification (few hundred bucks)
3) get R2 certified is $2000/annually, and requires 2 inspections that cost $1400/day per inspection (each inspection can last 3-10 days), so that is $6200-$30000 right there
4) to get R2 certified, you need to be RIOS certified, which starts at $2500
5) to get RIOS certified, it asks if you are an ISRI member? Not sure if that is required but it would not surprise me, cant find a price on that either but I am sure there is one.

So there is in total, there are 5+ certifications/memberships, all which cost money, and all which themselves have hundreds of pages of requirements, inspections, approvals, etc. Additionally you would have to spend $10,000 at least, possibly $30,000+, plus invest a ton of time and effort to actually qualify and pass the requirements for each certification.

It can't be possible that everyone on here is going through all this. Is it just that not all states/areas require this much stuff to legally be allowed to take apart computers and mail them off? Is there some loophole Im missing that says you only need to do all this if you are processing XXXX tons/month? Is everyone just doing it illegally and everything is fine (this seems the most likly but seems unreasonable). By doing it illegally I mean that in my state, to legally collect waste/electronics, and to recycle/take apart electronics, you need a permit. This permit requires numerous certifications.

Since I am not actually doing any recycling (like melting down, or shredding, or chemical extraction), and just collecting and disassembling devices, I would have thought all this was not needed but the permit says:

PROCESSING OF WASTE ELECTRONICS
The approval herein granted is limited to the processing by disassembling,mechanical processing (by sizing, shaping, separating and volume reductiononly), and associated storage prior to reuse or recycling at the processing ortransfer facility, of uncontaminated and source-separated electronic devices.

I was wondering if me sending the stuff, to a place with a certification, was good enough to qualify for the permit, but I do not know that it is. It say the permit is specifically for disassembling and processing of electronics, and that disassembling/processing without the permit is unlawful.

I am just wondering if any of the larger players here (specifically ones that are e-steward, R2/RIOs certified, etc) have any input on the matter, or advice, or pointers on how to legally collect the devices and items that are being sent to them.

edit: I have noticed, 2 of the local places that DO take electronics waste, do not have this permit (the state publishes a list of who has the permits online), 1 other local place does. I am wondering how the 2 places that purchase electronics waste do so without this permit at a large scale without getting in trouble. So, there must be a loophole or exception that I have not found yet.... I am assuming.

Big ticket item that I believe you have missed is the cost to establish and maintain R2 compliance. I'm sure Mario will chime in on that one.

In regards to ISRI membership, if you do less than $5 million in revenue, national dues are $3,007. You also need to pay regional dues which range from $250 to $1850.

**kss** · 06-28-2020, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by mthomasdev

Big ticket item that I believe you have missed is the cost to establish and maintain R2 compliance. I'm sure Mario will chime in on that one.

In regards to ISRI membership, if you do less than $5 million in revenue, national dues are $3,007. You also need to pay regional dues which range from $250 to $1850.

Right. I had assumed there was MUCH MUCH MUCH more involved, and much more cost. Even just bringing yourself up to compliance likley costs a lot. Im just saying, all the requirements make it super unlikley that someone can break into this business, which is obviously advantageous to the people that are already in it..... I suppose this isnt unique as there are a ton of businesses that have high overhead and are pretty unlikley to be disrupted by anyone but the main players. For example, you cant just go start up an ISP or a cell phone company or a car manufacturer, without significant resources. However I have always thought of scrapping to be a business that anyone can start small and built up, but for electronics recycling specifically that does not seem to be the case. Even thought I 100% belive I could safely and responsibly handle all the materials (its literally just taking apart computers and mailing them away), it seems crazy to have all this oversight/regulation.

Every component I get gets recycled properly. All plastic goes to the recycling center, all metal the local scrap yard, and everything else is reused/resold online, or to a buyer on here who DOES have the certs specifying they do things correctly. It almost seems as though I am more of a broker or extension of who I am selling to, rather than an individual entity that need permited.... but the state does not see it that way.

**406Refining** · 06-28-2020, 05:59 PM

I can't speak for other states, but in Montana this was the process I had to go through to get a recycling license:

It is better to ask questions to the state about recycling than to make assumptions. In my experience, absolute transparency with the state yields the best results and will keep you out of trouble.

1. initial application process: I had to provide a complete list of my processing procedures, a complete list of which companies scrap items go to, site maps, site descriptions, water samples from the area, complete a soil map for the area, a complete list of safety and emergency procedures, a complete list of closing procedures. All the soil and water stuff needed to be completed because the initial plan was to do the recycling in a 12'x40' shed with some outdoor storage (moved to a warehouse so that part was no longer necessary)

2. application approval (8 months later): I needed to get a $2 million liability insurance policy, a business license, and have a few site inspections.

In Montana, there are no electronics recycling rules so a good portion is thrown into the garbage by consumers and businesses. It's a shame, but when everything is so far apart it's very difficult for state/local governments to fund electronics recycling efforts. Below is what I found that someone can do with/without a license: if anything gets big enough the state will require licensing

-residential pickups: can do without a license

-dumpster diving: can do without a license

-business pickups: can do without a license (if it gets big enough licensing will be required)

-city/county pickups: need to have a recycling license

-state ewaste contracts: need to have a recycling license *also must have a hard drive shredder as most contracts are for ewaste pickups and data destruction

-federal ewaste pickups: need to have R2/estewards certification (in certain instances you may get a federal pickup if you provide a complete list of your processing procedures and where material will end up). I have found that the federal organizations are mostly concerned about items being destroyed vs. being reused. The recycling is more of a bonus.

*in other words, any local/state/federal will require some type of licensing. Businesses usually get to choose, but some have corporate rules that require licensed recyclers.

It would be interesting to hear from Mario on what the bigger certifications take and their costs/difficulty.

**kss** · 06-28-2020, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by 406Refining

I can't speak for other states, but in Montana this was the process I had to go through to get a recycling license:

It is better to ask questions to the state about recycling than to make assumptions. In my experience, absolute transparency with the state yields the best results and will keep you out of trouble.

1. initial application process: I had to provide a complete list of my processing procedures, a complete list of which companies scrap items go to, site maps, site descriptions, water samples from the area, complete a soil map for the area, a complete list of safety and emergency procedures, a complete list of closing procedures. All the soil and water stuff needed to be completed because the initial plan was to do the recycling in a 12'x40' shed with some outdoor storage (moved to a warehouse so that part was no longer necessary)

2. application approval (8 months later): I needed to get a $2 million liability insurance policy, a business license, and have a few site inspections.

In Montana, there are no electronics recycling rules so a good portion is thrown into the garbage by consumers and businesses. It's a shame, but when everything is so far apart it's very difficult for state/local governments to fund electronics recycling efforts. Below is what I found that someone can do with/without a license: if anything gets big enough the state will require licensing

-residential pickups: can do without a license

-dumpster diving: can do without a license

-business pickups: can do without a license (if it gets big enough licensing will be required)

-city/county pickups: need to have a recycling license

-state ewaste contracts: need to have a recycling license *also must have a hard drive shredder as most contracts are for ewaste pickups and data destruction

-federal ewaste pickups: need to have R2/estewards certification (in certain instances you may get a federal pickup if you provide a complete list of your processing procedures and where material will end up). I have found that the federal organizations are mostly concerned about items being destroyed vs. being reused. The recycling is more of a bonus.

*in other words, any local/state/federal will require some type of licensing. Businesses usually get to choose, but some have corporate rules that require licensed recyclers.

It would be interesting to hear from Mario on what the bigger certifications take and their costs/difficulty.

Yea it seems it is state specific. In PA we have a "covered devices" law that has been enacted in the last like.... 10 years I think. It makes it illegal for residents or business to throw electronics into the waste stream (dumpster, trash can, landfill, etc). Sure some people probably throw out computers here and there and they go un-noticed (I have found quite a few at the curb, even though technically thats illegal, it is not enforced). They MUST be recycled, and by a permitted entity. To be a permitted entity, you need a certain permit, and that permit stipulates e-steward or r2 cert as a requirement (and a ton of other things).

It just doesnt seem possible that there are large recycling yards, in this state, able to get away with buying e-waste, without that permit. But that is what is the case. They publish the list of companies/people with the permit. Now its not like I can go ask these yards, "hey how are you allowed to do this".... but that is essentially what I am looking for. What allows them to collect, buy, and sell e-waste, so that I can utilize the same law/permit/loophole/etc, as them.