Market Manipulation

**HipoGear** · 06-12-2015, 10:58 AM

Does anybody else follow the markets? I seem to have an obsession of checking it daily. Sometimes more than once a day.
I look at the stock market, gold and silver, oil and copper.

I believe that prices have been manipulated greatly. But aside from that, the correlation of things just seems way out of whack.

I don't believe there is a whole lot of private money in the stocks anymore, So that is just big bank speculation and a place for the 1% to park some of their excess money.

What I can't figure out is the metals pricing. It doesn't seem to matter if stocks go up or down. Metals take a hit regardless.
Mining and exploration companies are closing due to low pricing. Recycling helps to make up for demand but with the amount of throw away tech that is being produced now plus the rise in solar usage, I just sit here scratching my head.

Oil, from what I understand is being pushed on the market as a way for the Middle Eastern producers to have some control. And I just read the other day that the U.S. is producing more oil now than ever before. Enough to account for 90% of our usage.

So what gives? Does anyone have the answer?

**logansryche** · 06-12-2015, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by HipoGear

Does anybody else follow the markets? I seem to have an obsession of checking it daily. Sometimes more than once a day.
I look at the stock market, gold and silver, oil and copper.

I believe that prices have been manipulated greatly. But aside from that, the correlation of things just seems way out of whack.

I don't believe there is a whole lot of private money in the stocks anymore, So that is just big bank speculation and a place for the 1% to park some of their excess money.

What I can't figure out is the metals pricing. It doesn't seem to matter if stocks go up or down. Metals take a hit regardless.
Mining and exploration companies are closing due to low pricing. Recycling helps to make up for demand but with the amount of throw away tech that is being produced now plus the rise in solar usage, I just sit here scratching my head.

Oil, from what I understand is being pushed on the market as a way for the Middle Eastern producers to have some control. And I just read the other day that the U.S. is producing more oil now than ever before. Enough to account for 90% of our usage.

So what gives? Does anyone have the answer?

The way I see it the metals market follows supply and demand like a commodities market should. Only problem is, is there's more supply then demand so it brings the prices down, making them stale. You also have to take into account outside factors such as China shutting down most of their processing plants this past year so there isn't as much as a demand for metals as there once was and then there was the California port debacle. Of course one could argue the California port thing was orchestrated by the Government in an attempt to put us scrappers in our place.

**wayne1956** · 06-12-2015, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by logansryche

The way I see it the metals market follows supply and demand like a commodities market should. Only problem is, is there's more supply then demand so it brings the prices down, making them stale. You also have to take into account outside factors such as China shutting down most of their processing plants this past year so there isn't as much as a demand for metals as there once was and then there was the California port debacle. Of course one could argue the California port thing was orchestrated by the Government in an attempt to put us scrappers in our place.

I agree with this. Supply and demand is driven by the economy, and right now (regardless of the spin by the loonies in DC) the economy still pretty much sucks. In a down economy there is very little new building, and with very little new building there is little demand, hence what is currently out there pretty much supplies the current needs. More demand, higher prices, less demand, lower prices. Now as far as precious metals goes, IMHO I think there is a lot of manipulation by the big banks.

**HipoGear** · 06-12-2015, 12:01 PM

What is this California Port Debacle that you speak of? I haven't been following scrap per se, so I'm unaware of it.

**logansryche** · 06-12-2015, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by HipoGear

What is this California Port Debacle that you speak of? I haven't been following scrap per se, so I'm unaware of it.

West Coast port shutdown: Oranges rot on the dock - Feb. 17, 2015

**HipoGear** · 06-12-2015, 01:45 PM

Okay, so it's a labor strike.
A friend of mine likes to point out how China owns all of our ports. So basically we're ****ed if they decide to shut them down for any length of time. Like stated in the Communist Manifesto ... they will take over this country without firing a single shot.

**logansryche** · 06-12-2015, 01:48 PM

Basically - this country gets less American each day.

**eastky** · 06-12-2015, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by HipoGear

Okay, so it's a labor strike.
A friend of mine likes to point out how China owns all of our ports. So basically we're ****ed if they decide to shut them down for any length of time. Like stated in the Communist Manifesto ... they will take over this country without firing a single shot.

There is a gun behind every blade of grass. I dont see the USA ever getting invaded or taken over.

**SteelMill** · 06-12-2015, 02:10 PM

I am in the construction industry and our company sales and the sales of the companies around us have been picking up at a rapid speed in the last year. I can hardly keep up with the demand for new houses being built right now and I have 250 people working for me. It seems to me that the building industry is picking up and leaving the scrap pricees behind.

**logansryche** · 06-12-2015, 02:38 PM

Yep - my brother-in-law's father does roofing and he says pay's up, rate's up, and overtime's where it is.

**Otto** · 06-12-2015, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by SteelMill

I am in the construction industry and our company sales and the sales of the companies around us have been picking up at a rapid speed in the last year. I can hardly keep up with the demand for new houses being built right now and I have 250 people working for me. It seems to me that the building industry is picking up and leaving the scrap pricees behind.

I'm in the reno business and am also seeing business pick up. I was recently on a job at a campground. I was astounded to see the place packed with large RVs. I also noticed hundreds of middle-aged Harley riders coming through the small town I was at. Apparently, both RV and Harley Davidson sales are now back at per-recession levels with an upward trajectory. In my view, if discretionary spending is this strong, things are finally getting better.

**bigburtchino** · 06-12-2015, 04:09 PM

Oil prices manipulated by those that control the oil - "Big Oil Corps.".

Scrap prices is predicated by supply and demand, the particular commodity drives that sector.

The California Harbor Strike - was a play on global trade by union labor leaders and a particular political party exercising their "muscles" and "Will" because they can!

As "We the People" continue to do the best we can.

**EcoSafe** · 06-12-2015, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by logansryche

West Coast port shutdown: Oranges rot on the dock - Feb. 17, 2015

Thanks for the link. Though I think most of the scrap is actually sent from the north central states and the eastern sea board.

here are some eye opening factoids: The u.S.A. (small u because it is no longer about Us but them.) Actually imported 500,000 mtons of scrap last year.

The u.S.A. is also an exporter of oil.

Markets no longer make any kind of sense except those directly affected by supply and demand the 1%ers are just playing Monopoly.

You will see short price spurts in pricing of needed production metals like alu , copper, and rare earth metals. to buy physical Gold In the major markets for the average consumer costs a $500 premium so I am told. Jewlry prices have not come down 50% just like shipping prices have not come down with the fall of fuel prices.

The "Gold market" is now legally a mixed market basing the spot price on Paper Gold and physical gold. The Banksters are selling fools out there paper gold and buying physical gold. How much more rigged can you get then that.

Paper gold is a promise to pay just like an open date post dated check printed on fancy paper. Get out your magnifying glass and read the fine print.

People buy paper gold as a hedge. Ask your self this question. A hedge against what inflation, a monetary collapse, the tshtf. Does any one with s smodgen of sense really believe Mr. Bankster is going to send you a FEDEX with your Physical gold in it and a thank you note.

I could go on but I'd prolly get banned. have a nice day every one.

**EcoSafe** · 06-12-2015, 05:07 PM

OPINION: people are spending their grand children's money, credit, and fiat counterfeited $ (counter fit when you print it)

The very same thing that got us where we are now. Do you remember the Trillion $ bail out to those Banksters to big to fail That Trillion was just to distract you from seeing the 18 Trillion in borrowed $ they have really spent in the last few years that your kids and grand children will pay for.

**HT1** · 06-13-2015, 08:13 AM

[QUOTE=logansryche;248491 then there was the California port debacle. Of course one could argue the California port thing was orchestrated by the Government in an attempt to put us scrappers in our place.[/QUOTE]

PLZ PLZ PLZ lets have that argument

**logansryche** · 06-13-2015, 08:41 AM

what, that the Government uses secret tactics to keep its citizens in their place? No thank you.

**EcoSafe** · 06-13-2015, 09:34 AM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm !

**HT1** · 06-13-2015, 11:48 AM

if scrappers need to worry about government, the issue will be taxes. businesses have to claim scrapping on their taxes... soon someone will want everyone to

**logansryche** · 06-13-2015, 12:29 PM

I'm on this kick that our government is slowly squeezing values on scrap to force the smaller guys out so the big players like Upstate and Nulife will have the monopoly so they can then manipulate them so their survival depends on the government - but just enough where it doesn't bother the big guys but makes it not worth it to the smaller guys. Crazy thinking, aint it?

**street_sweeper** · 06-13-2015, 08:01 PM

I was reading a story about venture capitalists in Silicon Valley and Creative Destruction really jumped out, Andreessen is the guy who invented Netscape Navigator, these guys don't want to manipulate the market just create a country of their own.

Weissman said, “Silicon Valley V.C.s are all techno-optimists. They have the arrogant belief that you can take a geography and remove all obstructions and have nothing but a free flow of capital and ideas, and that it’s good, it’s very good, to creatively destroy everything that has gone before.” Some Silicon Valley V.C.s believe that these values would have greater sway if their community left America behind: Andreessen’s nerd nation with a charter and a geographic locale. Peter Thiel favors “seasteading,” establishing floating cities in the middle of the ocean. Balaji Srinivasan, until recently a general partner at a16z and now the chairman of one of its Bitcoin companies, has called for the “ultimate exit.” Arguing that the United States is as fossilized as Microsoft, and that the Valley has become stronger than Boston, New York, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C., combined, Srinivasan believes that its denizens should “build an opt-in society, ultimately outside the U.S., run by technology.”

Market Manipulation

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