Scrap Gasoline

Depending on how screwed up Florida gets from the hurricane(s), you might get a visit from Pam Bondi. It sounds like the state is threatening at least to be pretty aggressive to price gougers. Florida's a big chaotic state being the 3rd or 4th most populated without a more closely knit together culture but I wouldn't want to be on any list "when they get around to it" of people being reported of charging extra high prices because of the crisis. Being a self-employed guy, I wouldn't want to get sideways with the state, they could make your life miserable.

As for selling the gas you have, I don't see that ending anything but badly. But, hey, if you're a gambler and want to roll the dice, go for it and see what happens.

After the hurricane(s) pass(es) and you're ok, you should try to track down an old book called Alas, Babylon and check it out. The story is set in Florida. Not the same disaster but good fiction of what happens when the thin veneer of "civilization" comes off. Its certainly not a value-neutral story.

Good luck and stay safe...

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

There are a ton of people trying to leave Florida and the gas stations are running out of gas. I keep a fairly sizable stock in case of hurricanes and I am considering taking ten gallons to the cars sitting in line at empty stations waiting for a truck to come and letting those waiting bid on the two five gallon containers. I get to make a few bucks and people who really need the gas the most get some gas.

Ethiclal? Yes or no?

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this is a terrible idea sorry.......I love post apocalyptic films but thank the Lord we do not live in a "Mad Max" movie yet

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

So, screw them. They should have prepared. Government regulations aside, if I make money on the gas I put away, I am a bad person and unethical. It would be more ethical to make everyone wait in the path of danger than it would be to make gas available to someone that was concerned to the point they are willing to pay an exorbitant price to make sure their family was out of the path of a powerful hurricane? What if someone knocked on my door and offered me $100 for five gallons of gas?

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Some people are stuck in a crap housing and there is only so much one can do to prepare. *A lot* of people live in apartments. It is unsafe to store large quantities of gasoline in apartments. But yeah, screw them. Also screw those people who planned to leave via plane until the airlines jacked all the prices over $1000 so are stuck in a situation they thought they'd already planned a way out of. And screw those people on fixed incomes who simply don't have the means to stock up for the apocalypse. And screw those people who have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet and don't have time to go out and stock up on extra gas just in case. So yes, you're proposing something unethical. No contortions you do will redeem the premise. There is a good book called The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein that looks at "disaster capitalism". Highly recommend it.

It would be immoral, IMO and it is definitely illegal in FL. With the Governor's declaration of a state of emergency, all price increases have to be justifiable and warranted and within a certain percentage. Beyond that, it is considered price gouging and included possible jail time. These rules were put into place after Andrew when lots of folks did exactly the sort of thing you are talking about with generators, gas, water, etc.

Regarding the hurricane shutters, be a man and tell these customers that you have a schedule and cannot make it to them because, as an honest businessman, you take care of your regular customers as promised.

Regarding the hurricane shutters, be a man and tell these customers that you have a schedule and cannot make it to them because, as an honest businessman, you take care of your regular customers as promised.


Where and when I grew up telling someone "be a man" is a major insult.

Raising his price should tell the customer to look else where and if they choose to accept his price he still has to arrange it around his schedule. You are not walking in his shoes so try looking at it from a different perspective.

MY opinion is that "price gouging" is a term that the press and politicians love because it gives them a reason to stand in front of a microphone and run their mouths.

If you didn't fill your gas tanks last week then its your fault. The hurricane hit the Texas refining industry hard which is a major part of our gasoline supply. Then we have another hurricane this time heading for the east coast, get ready.

As far a the morality of giving, selling gasoline as the original question of this threads asked I didn't address it in my first post. Why not? Because I really thought it was obvious that assisting others is always good. My concern is and was that it might be viewed as illegal and might start trouble among those who want the gasoline. 73, Mike

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Originally Posted by JJinLV

Some people are stuck in a crap housing and there is only so much one can do to prepare. *A lot* of people live in apartments. It is unsafe to store large quantities of gasoline in apartments. But yeah, screw them. Also screw those people who planned to leave via plane until the airlines jacked all the prices over $1000 so are stuck in a situation they thought they'd already planned a way out of. And screw those people on fixed incomes who simply don't have the means to stock up for the apocalypse. And screw those people who have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet and don't have time to go out and stock up on extra gas just in case. So yes, you're proposing something unethical. No contortions you do will redeem the premise. There is a good book called The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein that looks at "disaster capitalism". Highly recommend it.

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I am one of those people working two and three jobs to make ends meet.

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Originally Posted by harsas

It would be immoral, IMO and it is definitely illegal in FL. With the Governor's declaration of a state of emergency, all price increases have to be justifiable and warranted and within a certain percentage. Beyond that, it is considered price gouging and included possible jail time. These rules were put into place after Andrew when lots of folks did exactly the sort of thing you are talking about with generators, gas, water, etc.

Regarding the hurricane shutters, be a man and tell these customers that you have a schedule and cannot make it to them because, as an honest businessman, you take care of your regular customers as promised.

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I have three types of jobs; Good, fast and cheap.... You can have any two. I gave her an honest price and she complained that it sounded very expensive so I offered he a less expensive alternative. She declined. One job was going to be fast and good, ain't gonna be cheap. The other was a good job cheap.... Fast was going to be sacrificed. I was honest.

Now, a question for all here who criticized me for being unethical instead of offering an opinion on the question: Do you sell your scrap to the yard that offers the cheapest price or do you shop around to find the yard that pays the best? Are you being unethical? Using your logic, why shouldn't you offer to gift your scrap to the handicapped woman with the car full of children and pets instead of choosing the young Mercedes driver that can afford to pay more? What is the difference?

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

Now, a question for all here who criticized me for being unethical instead of offering an opinion on the question: Do you sell your scrap to the yard that offers the cheapest price or do you shop around to find the yard that pays the best? Are you being unethical? Using your logic, why shouldn't you offer to gift your scrap to the handicapped woman with the car full of children and pets instead of choosing the young Mercedes driver that can afford to pay more? What is the difference?

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Your example is a massive stretch. There are lots of differences. You are not a gas station. Instead you're suggesting opportunism and avarice based upon impending catastrophe. That isn't the same as shopping around. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

Many of us, I'm sure, do help out other folks where we can. But your example doesn't take into account that many of us depend in part or completely on scrap for our income. To give away all our income is simply to switch places. Your comparison in practice offers martyrdom as the 'good' option. You do not depend on gasoline sales for your income and you will not be martyred for want of exploiting people who have zero options. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

Your plan is premised on specifically exploiting people under duress. A more apt comparison would be if the disabled woman from your example (let's pretend a mobility disability) had her chair's motor die. And you had a spare motor. But because she desperately needed it and didn't have other options you, instead of selling it for a normal price to her, you sought out a wealthy disabled person who wouldn't blink at an unjustifiably extravagant price. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by JJinLV

Your example is a massive stretch. There are lots of differences. You are not a gas station. Instead you're suggesting opportunism and avarice based upon impending catastrophe. That isn't the same as shopping around. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

Many of us, I'm sure, do help out other folks where we can. But your example doesn't take into account that many of us depend in part or completely on scrap for our income. To give away all our income is simply to switch places. Your comparison in practice offers martyrdom as the 'good' option. You do not depend on gasoline sales for your income and you will not be martyred for want of exploiting people who have zero options. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

Your plan is premised on specifically exploiting people under duress. A more apt comparison would be if the disabled woman from your example (let's pretend a mobility disability) had her chair's motor die. And you had a spare motor. But because she desperately needed it and didn't have other options you, instead of selling it for a normal price to her, you sought out a wealthy disabled person who wouldn't blink at an unjustifiably extravagant price. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

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But there are other paces to get gas. I just have gas available here and now. Good, cheap and fast.... You want good gas fast, ain't gonna be cheap. You want good cheap gas, you may have to sacrifice speed. They are not paying an exorbitant price for gas, they are paying a premium for proximity. So, would it be ethical to sell the five gallons of gas for three dollars a gallon and charge them $85 to let them know where to find it?

... And just as an aside, you are not even willing to drive here with gas to provide that poor woman and children the gas at price but are criticizing me for offering it to them for a price.

Are you planning to evacuate yourself? You never said or stated where you are located. Stop worrying about making an extra buck and just do what you need to for you and your family to be safe. This may be that once in a lifetime storm. Looks like it will get ugly :(

I have always heard if you have to ask if something is ethical or not it probably isn't.............You seem hell bent on doing so I say go for it..........If it was me and wanting to help out I would just pick a few people to help and donate it.......Unfortunately I don't have time or resources to help those in need so I wish everyone the best and try to be safe..........My daughter in Florida is evacuating from Tampa and is on the way here now so of course I wish everyone the best but they didn't mention any trouble getting out of Florida

Somehow I get the feeling there is a bit more behind this than just selling a few gallons of gasoline.

Think about this for a moment, OP purchased a surplus of gasoline for his family for just such an emergency but is now willing to exploit others with his stores.

Is our OP a Dreamer soon to be deported.

He's surely pissed about something and it ain't no hurricane thats bothering him. Otherwise he would be evacuating along with family and friends as the evac order is mandatory.

Honestly guys, this is just mental exercise. On the one hand, I have gas. On the other hand, there are people who need it. The question is whether it is ethical to allow access to it. Y'all making it out to be evil or not. I personally believe it is serving my fellow human beings to allow those who need it most access to the gasoline they need. I believe the best gauge to determine the amount of need is the price they are willing to pay. It would seem that others here have a different method they would employ to determine the amount of need and seem a bit offended by the use of price to determine need. For those who feel there is a better way to determine need, what method of gauging need would you use?

my daughter did say the usual 9 hour drive took 16 hours........didn't mention any trouble getting gas or anyone trying to auction surplus gas........This may be isolated to certain parts

Did you do the shutter job?

Not the one I mentioned, but I did for an existing customer... I also went with another customer/friend and helped her get sandbags.

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Is our OP a Dreamer soon to be deported.

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alloy2- I'll wager no DACA "Dreamer" is going to be deported unless they're a felon or some sort of other undesirable. t00nces2 is far from being either new to the US or a fresh kid. He just one of many Floridians that have come to that state from somewhere else. I've always admired his hustle of finding ways to make money. I just won't do the gas auction he proposed and charging considerably higher prices for things he already does. If his prices for jobs don't fall too far down the right side of the normal times bell curve, then he should be alright. If he's too far down the right side of that curve, then I guess Pam Bondi & crew and possibly a jury of his peers will decide what price is acceptable and what price crosses the line.

By the way, the Euro model is now showing the eye of Irma being west-of-center coming north from the tip of Florida. Probably means the Gulf side of the state will get hit pretty hard. t00nces2 may get to see if his shutter work holds up well...

Okay everyone. I am a little disappointed in you guys. I have said numerouis times in the thread that this whole thing was just a question. I asked it as if I was considering it just to get y'all to discuss this. So....

After hearing all of y'alls opinion on my BS question, I decided the right thing to do was to take five gallons of gas down to the station with a coffee cans and some dirty crappy auto parts and I slowly poured the five gallons of gas over the auto parts to clean them. People seemed upset at the waste and questioned why I would taunt them with such an extravagant display of wasting gas... I told them that the scrap metal forum dot com members told me it would be unethical to sell to one but not another... They said they understood.

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Originally Posted by t00nces2

Okay everyone. I am a little disappointed in you guys. I have said numerouis times in the thread that this whole thing was just a question. I asked it as if I was considering it just to get y'all to discuss this. So....

After hearing all of y'alls opinion on my BS question, I decided the right thing to do was to take five gallons of gas down to the station with a coffee cans and some dirty crappy auto parts and I slowly poured the five gallons of gas over the auto parts to clean them. People seemed upset at the waste and questioned why I would taunt them with such an extravagant display of wasting gas... I told them that the scrap metal forum dot com members told me it would be unethical to sell to one but not another... They said they understood.

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Gas is real good for cleaning dirty car parts and for killing ants also. I had an ant problem this year and finally traced the nest to a spot outside the garage where the gravel are deep against the foundation.

5 gallons of gas solved that problem.