Scrap Gasoline - Page 3

We pay US$5.56 a gallon for 95 petrol in NZ already.....

Originally Posted by auminer

You sure opened a can of worms with this question! LOL

It appears that the consensus is that it's more ethical to stay home with your gas and let someone ride out the storm in their car, rather than offer them the gas they need.

The same ethics debate is raging on another forum I frequent. One of the members there rented a Uhaul truck and drove 1500 miles round trip to buy 30 generators and bring them back to sell at a premium. As you've experienced, most are calling him a heartless, price gouging bass-turd (and worse). Apparently it would have been more ethical to leave the generators 750 miles away in a warehouse & let folks deal with no electricity at any price.

If you don't believe that mandatory price controls remove supply incentive, I have one word for you: Venezuela.

What surprised me was the vitriol I have gotten. I presented it as a real world dilemma to make consideration a reality, and you would think I was siphoning the last drops of gas from their cars rather than offering enough gas to get 100 miles for a premium.

Originally Posted by auminer

So, since the guy doesn't have the proper permits doled out by the nanny state, and doesn't offer up his tithe from his efforts to the nanny state, he should also just stay home and not use his entrepreneurial spirit to provide a much needed commodity to people who desperately need it. Rather, those people should just do without, and we should all depend upon the nanny state to provide all our needs.

Got it.

I weep for this nation.

Doesn't matter, AU, it is all the states wealth and property to begin with. I am sure when they call in private gold and silver, Dakota will be first in line to turn over his.... ah.... The taxman's gold and silver.

Yep, its either black or white with these guys. There is no various ranges of middle, which in most cases of life is what exists.

So, auminer says he's colleague from the other forum's "entrepreneurial spirit" is being wasted because that guy wants to operate at an advantage over a legit businessman who pays his sales tax to help fund local, state, and federal governments. And the justification for not paying sales tax or reporting the extra income tax is that its just the "nanny state" that provides no essential or needed services in society and thus should not be funded. Is there room for improvement in the way various governments provide the services they do, absolutely but that actually takes active citizenship of people being involved. So, I guess auminer wants to just go back to the rugged individualism days that works in some locations but usually devolves down into tribalism and feudalism. Why has America been fairly unique in its longevity and general openness to do things as one wishes, because we've gone away (or at least we tried) from tribalism and feudalism through the way we have governed ourselves. That may be slipping and things may need to be revitalized but its mostly worked fro 200+ years. If you want to give another system a try, be my guest.

As for t00nces2 "concern" for when the feds or whoever calls to have me turn in my gold and silver, well they won't get much because I have no gold and only a little silver. And I won't be the first one in line to voluntary give it up, just as I won't be the first in lines to give up my guns or get a microchip implanted in me. But my arguments won't matter here because its "either/or" with these guys.

Enjoy your day. I'm going to go hang out in some mild temps, sunshine, and breezes.

P.S. I've never voted for a liberal in my life so don't use that tired line on me.

Originally Posted by auminer

You sure opened a can of worms with this question! LOL

It appears that the consensus is that it's more ethical to stay home with your gas and let someone ride out the storm in their car, rather than offer them the gas they need.

The same ethics debate is raging on another forum I frequent. One of the members there rented a Uhaul truck and drove 1500 miles round trip to buy 30 generators and bring them back to sell at a premium. As you've experienced, most are calling him a heartless, price gouging bass-turd (and worse). Apparently it would have been more ethical to leave the generators 750 miles away in a warehouse & let folks deal with no electricity at any price.

If you don't believe that mandatory price controls remove supply incentive, I have one word for you: Venezuela.

I don't see how this would be un-ethical. We all need to make a living. He took the initiative to rent a van, drive 1500 miles and spend his money. There are cost involved and a lot of time spent. He should be able to make a few thousand.

AU and Dakota... Some people have more faith in government than I do... I try not to argue with either. Personally, I would rather pay a higher price to have a generator when I need it than to wait for the satisfaction of the government catching the guy who sold me a item I wanted for a price I was willing to pay.

Originally Posted by mthomasdev

I don't see how this would be un-ethical. We all need to make a living. He took the initiative to rent a van, drive 1500 miles and spend his money. There are cost involved and a lot of time spent. He should be able to make a few thousand.

Tittle says " Scrap Gasoline " leading one to speculate the gasoline was recovered from scrap cars / trucks etc.

Modern ethanol blended gasolines to not age well over time, the ethanol absorbs moisture from the atmosphere and I believe Florida is well know to have high humidity.

Stored gasoline for generator use should be replenished with fresh gasoline at least every 4 to 6 months and not sold to some unsuspecting person or family that would be depending on that old gasoline to make an exit from an incoming storm.

I've used jun gasoline that I have recovered from derelict vehicles in my portable welder, I can say from experience you would not take that welder out on a paying hourly job and expect to be called back for another.

Junk gasoline even of it's mixed with fresh still pre-detonates.

You should have sold your gas you may need the cash... stay safe behind your neighbors plywood! LOL You reap what you sow and I think you did not sell your gas or overcharge for shutters so you should be fine! Stay safe

Originally Posted by auminer

It's fascinating that you would accuse me of black/white thinking, when it's you that's criticizing people for taking on their entrepreneurial spirit, and thinking outside the box to fill a need as best they can. Your position is to do nothing without the black & white permission and blessing of the nanny state, and giving the nanny state their cut.

Would you have the OP hoard his gas? Would you have him just give it away? To whom? Should he have not purchased gas in preparation for the possibility of a hurricane?

Should the guy on the other forum just give those generators away? Should he have not made the effort to purchase & import them?

Give us some answers of your own instead of just criticizing the questions.

I couldn't care less whether or how you vote... it's your apparent attitude that you need governmental permission to act that concerns me.

This nation wasn't built by that kind of thinking. Maybe it isn't feely-good warm & fuzzy, but sometimes what you seem to believe is greed is a necessary motivation to provide needed goods & services.

Capitalism isn't always pretty, but socialism ALWAYS ends ugly.

He bought gas for an emergency like now. He stated he would overcharge someone for shutters that would be cheep after the storm! As far as the generators go if you are willing to take the risk to buy a bunch and transport them to the effected area to try and flip them if you can then good for you! You could try and do this with bottled water but they would come after you!

Give us some answers of your own instead of just criticizing the questions.

I've given a number of answers but auminer wants more so here are some. If his "colleague" on the other forum had a sales tax license in the state that he was selling the generators in (it wasn't explained if the person was from the affected state, went out of state to guy the items, and then returned to his home state to sell them or not), then there shouldn't be a problem if he turns in the state's cut on selling the items. As I said before, this isn't a rummage sale, its a business venture and should be treated as one. I think in all the states and most localities a business collects sales tax on merchandise sold or services rendered. The generator guy might run afoul of not having a peddler's license if he's selling outside of his home local but I'm sure that's not a big deal compared to stiffing the state of its sales tax share on tens of thousands of $$ in selling those 30 generators. If the guy is just a "carpetbagger" coming into the affected state just to do a quick time score that only helps out himself and the few people he sold the generators to and not leave the rest of society a cut of the action to help fund things such as 911, police, fire & rescue, and other stuff, then he takes the gamble and hope he doesn't get caught. If small business guys don't see the disadvantage they're up against when someone isn't playing by the same rules as they have to follow to be part of the community, then I can't help you. Its a social contract that has been turned into various laws in almost any community across the country that scales up to all the states as well, you can have a business here doing most anything but in exchange for that economic opportunity, there are certain obligations that will be required of you and in most places that is paying sales tax. If you don't pay sales tax to the local community or the state, then go ahead and take that gamble but if you get busted, then you'll have to take your lumps however they get dealt out.

auminer states that this "nation wasn't built on that kind of thinking [some sort of governmental permission to do certain things]" but perhaps he needs to read more history. Totally unfettered capitalism without the government at various scales having some sort of say in it existed only on the frontier and usually only for short periods of time. I gave the example of President Washington sending federalized troops to the frontier to enforce the collection of the federal tax on distilled alcohol so there is long U.S. precedent of the government "meddling" with individual people's economic activity. Its isn't new and in the case of moonshining has always had tensions between the people (or at least some of them) and the government. A classic example is the disposition of land in this country. Now maybe auminer's great----------grandad and his sons squatted on some piece of land and claimed it as their own by force until whatever governments finally let them have it but almost all private land in this country came to be that through a legal transaction of transferring ownership from some form of government, most of it from the U.S. government. Private land was either bought directly from the government or given as sort of land grant with strings attached. The point is that there was some sort of "permission" given for someone to acquire land before it turned into a private commodity to be bought and sold afterwards. That's real history whether or not we want to acknowledge it or not.

Anyway, I need to go try to make some money on ebay. And, by the way, I do have a sales tax license for the little side gigs I do even if they generally don't amount to much but I do live in a "mean" state that charges sales tax on food. Everybody has skin in the game.

Originally Posted by DakotaRog

I've given a number of answers but auminer wants more so here are some. If his "colleague" on the other forum had a sales tax license in the state that he was selling the generators in (it wasn't explained if the person was from the affected state, went out of state to guy the items, and then returned to his home state to sell them or not), then there shouldn't be a problem if he turns in the state's cut on selling the items. As I said before, this isn't a rummage sale, its a business venture and should be treated as one. I think in all the states and most localities a business collects sales tax on merchandise sold or services rendered. The generator guy might run afoul of not having a peddler's license if he's selling outside of his home local but I'm sure that's not a big deal compared to stiffing the state of its sales tax share on tens of thousands of $$ in selling those 30 generators. If the guy is just a "carpetbagger" coming into the affected state just to do a quick time score that only helps out himself and the few people he sold the generators to and not leave the rest of society a cut of the action to help fund things such as 911, police, fire & rescue, and other stuff, then he takes the gamble and hope he doesn't get caught. If small business guys don't see the disadvantage they're up against when someone isn't playing by the same rules as they have to follow to be part of the community, then I can't help you. Its a social contract that has been turned into various laws in almost any community across the country that scales up to all the states as well, you can have a business here doing most anything but in exchange for that economic opportunity, there are certain obligations that will be required of you and in most places that is paying sales tax. If you don't pay sales tax to the local community or the state, then go ahead and take that gamble but if you get busted, then you'll have to take your lumps however they get dealt out.

auminer states that this "nation wasn't built on that kind of thinking [some sort of governmental permission to do certain things]" but perhaps he needs to read more history. Totally unfettered capitalism without the government at various scales having some sort of say in it existed only on the frontier and usually only for short periods of time. I gave the example of President Washington sending federalized troops to the frontier to enforce the collection of the federal tax on distilled alcohol so there is long U.S. precedent of the government "meddling" with individual people's economic activity. Its isn't new and in the case of moonshining has always had tensions between the people (or at least some of them) and the government. A classic example is the disposition of land in this country. Now maybe auminer's great----------grandad and his sons squatted on some piece of land and claimed it as their own by force until whatever governments finally let them have it but almost all private land in this country came to be that through a legal transaction of transferring ownership from some form of government, most of it from the U.S. government. Private land was either bought directly from the government or given as sort of land grant with strings attached. The point is that there was some sort of "permission" given for someone to acquire land before it turned into a private commodity to be bought and sold afterwards. That's real history whether or not we want to acknowledge it or not.

Anyway, I need to go try to make some money on ebay. And, by the way, I do have a sales tax license for the little side gigs I do even if they generally don't amount to much but I do live in a "mean" state that charges sales tax on food. Everybody has skin in the game.

Florida does not have a tax on services, so.... The generator will be sold at cost, the delivery fee will be $1,500. Now everybody is happy.

State of Florida.com | Florida Tax Guide

Sales Tax

The state charges a 6% tax rate on the sale or rental of goods, with some exceptions such as groceries and medicine. Additionally, counties are able to levy local taxes on top of the state amount, and most do—55 of the 67 Florida counties added local sales tax to the state tax in 2012. The highest amount added to the sales tax was 1.5% by 7 counties in 2012, bringing the total sales tax to 7.5% in those counties; that will increase to 8 counties in 2013. For a complete list of the additional sales tax rates by county, visit the Florida Department of Revenue: Florida Dept. of Revenue -

Use Tax

State sales tax needs to be paid for internet or other out-of-state purchases, even if no tax was charged at the time of purchase, or were charged at a rate less than the Florida sales and use tax rate. While this includes taxable items bought in Florida, it mostly applies to items bough outside of the state which were brought in or delivered. Florida residents are required to report these sales and pay the use tax on them personally.

Originally Posted by alloy2

State of Florida.com | Florida Tax Guide

Sales Tax

The state charges a 6% tax rate on the sale or rental of goods, with some exceptions such as groceries and medicine. Additionally, counties are able to levy local taxes on top of the state amount, and most do—55 of the 67 Florida counties added local sales tax to the state tax in 2012. The highest amount added to the sales tax was 1.5% by 7 counties in 2012, bringing the total sales tax to 7.5% in those counties; that will increase to 8 counties in 2013. For a complete list of the additional sales tax rates by county, visit the Florida Department of Revenue: Florida Dept. of Revenue -

Use Tax

State sales tax needs to be paid for internet or other out-of-state purchases, even if no tax was charged at the time of purchase, or were charged at a rate less than the Florida sales and use tax rate. While this includes taxable items bought in Florida, it mostly applies to items bough outside of the state which were brought in or delivered. Florida residents are required to report these sales and pay the use tax on them personally.

I do not have to collect tax for my handyman services. Landscapers do not have to collect tax for landscaping services. Housekeepers do not have to charge sales tax for housekeeping services.