general liability and workmans comp

as many of you all know, starting in a few days we might be handed a contract to remove and scrap a ton of payphones that are no longer in order.



2 things that the client is requiring is workmans comp and general liability insurance naming them as insured.

I have been thinking of setting all that up for a while since things been picking up some.

however instead of contacting numerous companies for qoutes and being promised anything and everyhing, i figured i try and get some honest reviews.

If you currently have both set up, could you let me know the name of the company, what kind of coverage you got, and a ball park figure on what you pay?

Not trying to get personal...like i said just want some honest reviews.

Thanks

Well, I had an insurance broker that I used when I was in business big time. He was able to sell me plans from all of the big names and lots of ones that you have never heard of. He has the ability to get the best price for you out of them all. You may want to find a guy like that.

I won't compare pricing for you because ours was always in excess of 100,000 a year. That audit at the end of the year will get you as well if you are not prepared.

Since you are a company shouldn't you already have a general liability insurance. I don't handle that stuff so i don't know what we pay, but i do know that if you own the company you don't have to have workmans comp. But if you have any employees you have to have it on them.

I know for a fact that we are under computer repair or something silly like that. It is close to 2-3%. But Pitstone is right, keep it short.

Originally Posted by parrothead

Well, I had an insurance broker that I used when I was in business big time. He was able to sell me plans from all of the big names and lots of ones that you have never heard of. He has the ability to get the best price for you out of them all. You may want to find a guy like that.

I won't compare pricing for you because ours was always in excess of 100,000 a year. That audit at the end of the year will get you as well if you are not prepared.

Yeah, I am sure mine wouldnt be near that much, right now anyways, or I pray it wouldnt be lol.

Originally Posted by Escrap

Since you are a company shouldn't you already have a general liability insurance. I don't handle that stuff so i don't know what we pay, but i do know that if you own the company you don't have to have workmans comp. But if you have any employees you have to have it on them.

Just because you are a company, doesn't mean nothing. General Liability Insurance is mainly for when you damage someone's property etc. Up till now, we have only done junk removal jobs on foreclosures/bank owned properties. The clients don't really care if you accidently damage the properties as 9 times out of 10, they are doing a full rehab on them anyways. Not saying, we intentionally cause damage, but if we ever did, wouldn't be a real big deal.

However, we are beginning to get more private individual jobs coming in. So far, what I have done, is if I believe we cannot do a job without damage to the property, I tell them, and then ask them to sign a liability form, that holds my company harmless in the event of damage. They always sign it. Luckily, we have only accidentally caused damage 2 different times. Both times, I told the home owners, that even though I wasn't responsible to the damage, I would fix it. I mainly did it, because I felt it was the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by coppertone

George B. For the workers comp i use a leasing company,or a pay as you go company. Because its very little paper work to deal with and you will avoid being audited at the end of the year. And possibly oweing the workers comp money for under reporting your guesstimated gross. Leasing i use Matrix, for the G/L i carry 600.000. For a couple thousand a year. You could also get that with a pay as you go plan thats the way i did it whhen first starting out. Be safe, and stay on top of your plan.

Yeah, i just need to find a company that will do it for this area. I unfortunately don't know of any though. I hear people talk about $1M policies, which is nice, but way to much in my opinion for what we do. Something like what you have ($600k) sounds a bit more reasonable to me.

Who do you use, for your GL?

Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing

George good questions but your insurance provider is going to need to know what kinda business u are in. Tell themscrap sales and keep it as short as possible. I just got told I owe more for last year by my agent today. Not complaining about it the more I pay the more I make its one bill I get that I don't mind paying.just a guess but 4.000 a year sounds about right for a million dollars of liability insurance. Workers comp might be 8 to 10 percent of every dollar paid to your employees. I pay 2278.00 for a year of insurance zero claims in five years it was origanally 3600 a year. Hope you brought your checkbook. I also use torches and flammable gases it took almost a month to find a commercial insurer to insure me.

Thanks for giving me some idea of the price range to look at. Like I said, I am wanting to be armed with as much intel as possible, so I know if the companies are trying to blow smoke up my rear or not.

Originally Posted by fordsix

Workmans comp laws vary from state to state in FL owners and oficcers of a company do not have to have it up to 4 people

Well, as mentioned before, I do plan to get some, just in case anything happens to me, my wife's uncle, or anyone else working for me.

This new potential client is, well not sure how to describe it. Just is becoming more and more "anal" as the day goes by.

In her last email to us, it was like she was threatening things, and demanding things. I told my wife's uncle....."I get that she is a potential client, and is trying to keep everyone, including her clients happy, but who the hell does she think she is, to talk to us like that"

She needs to realize, that without VIP Recycling and some of the other recyclers out there for these phones, she be dismantling them herself.



Thanks again everyone. Tomorrow, I will search for a company, and with any luck might find one.

Originally Posted by erewen

Thanks for bringing up the topic George. I got a call from my county on Monday asking if I would be interested in the escrap they collect. Got to pick up the paperwork next week and this may be an issue that arises.

Unfortunately, you live in a day and age where no one trusts you anymore. No matter how corporate or professional you appear and like, people want to know, that your company has the financial resources to fix things that you are by law responsible for breaking, leaking information, etc.

Both GL and Comp is based on payroll so the more your payroll the more your premium. You estimate your payroll when you start and pay estimated premium and one year from now you will go through an audit to determine final premium. As owner you will have to pay GL on yourself as well as employees, but for Comp you can be waived and use other types of cheaper insurance to replace your income and your current health plan should cover the medical part of it.

In Colorado you can buy Comp through an insurance agency but they will in turn buy it from the state, I always bought directly from the state so I saved money by eliminating the middle man. Having few or no claims, a certified safety program, an approved medical provider, are other ways to get your premium down as well. You will fall into one of several categories, so finding the cheapest classification will be important, they may also set you up with several classifications and divide it up with the annual audit being the final say. If someone gets hurt doing something else other then what you say you are doing, things will get complicated. Also, if one of your employees get hurt but it's a third parties fault, your Comp kicks in and then they will try and recoup costs. This can and will take several years to do and your rates will be affected in the meantime.

GL provides protection when you are doing anything related to your business, not just f'in up walls in someones house or business. Country Financial Services commercial insurance is a good place to start.

Originally Posted by KZBell

Both GL and Comp is based on payroll so the more your payroll the more your premium. You estimate your payroll when you start and pay estimated premium and one year from now you will go through an audit to determine final premium. As owner you will have to pay GL on yourself as well as employees, but for Comp you can be waived and use other types of cheaper insurance to replace your income and your current health plan should cover the medical part of it.

In Colorado you can buy Comp through an insurance agency but they will in turn buy it from the state, I always bought directly from the state so I saved money by eliminating the middle man. Having few or no claims, a certified safety program, an approved medical provider, are other ways to get your premium down as well. You will fall into one of several categories, so finding the cheapest classification will be important, they may also set you up with several classifications and divide it up with the annual audit being the final say. If someone gets hurt doing something else other then what you say you are doing, things will get complicated. Also, if one of your employees get hurt but it's a third parties fault, your Comp kicks in and then they will try and recoup costs. This can and will take several years to do and your rates will be affected in the meantime.

GL provides protection when you are doing anything related to your business, not just f'in up walls in someones house or business. Country Financial Services commercial insurance is a good place to start.

Thanks a lot for the history (no disrespect intended there), and the name of a company to check out.

So I give them the life history, they quote me a price. In turn I pay that, then 12 months later, they "audit" me to determine what the actual costs were, and then I will either be left alone, or told to pay more?

You said to go directly through the state, and I am one of those guys, who don't like middleman. So, not to sound dumb, but how would you go directly to them for the comp insurance?

I have several local state agencies near me, but not real sure on who would handle that really.

And yeah, I would have it set up to protect a lot more than just punching a hole in someone's wall etc.

I paid my estimate in quarterly and tried to be as accurate as possible, if you over pay you will get a refund after the audit or didn't pay enough you will have to pay in. My payroll for employees for many years was in the 300-400k range so it was important to be accurate.

Every state is different so either call your states general help line or use Google and see what comes up. Here it's called Pinnacle Assurance but used to be called Colorado Compensation Insurance Association.

When I first started our const biz back in 1990 GL was a drop in the bucket, as lawsuits became more prevalent, rates skyrocketed no matter how many claims you did or didn't have. GL also protects against shoddy workmanship and there are a lot of shoddy const businesses out there.

When I first started our const biz back in 1990 GL was a drop in the bucket, as lawsuits became more prevalent, rates skyrocketed no matter how many claims you did or didn't have. GL also protects against shoddy workmanship and there are a lot of shoddy const businesses out there.

Did they "penalize" you with a little higher rate because of the type of business you were in. Because of all the shoddy ones??

Originally Posted by Mechanic688

Did they "penalize" you with a little higher rate because of the type of business you were in. Because of all the shoddy ones??

The increase was across the board and not just targeting me, if that's what you mean. For about 10+ years we were building like crazy around here because Colorado was growing so fast and the Feds were making money easy to get...everyone was trying to get a piece of the action no matter their experience.

Originally Posted by PistoneScrapProcessing

You might want an umbrella policy to make sure all your basis are covered and list your client as additionally insured on the certificate.

PistoneScrapProcessing,
My thing is, if she does something while being listed on my policy, and Fs it up, then couldnt that come back on me some how and my insurance?

I apologize if I don't understand her reasoning exactly. I can understand having the GL and workmans comp insurance, so if something happens while my wife's uncle and I are removing those pay phones, or hauling junk from a property and accidently damage something, or our selves, it is covered.

I just dont understand for this particular job why she would need to be listed, as she would not be with us, and does not work for me. We are merely sub contractors for her.

George, it's common for General Contractors to have subcontractors list them on the policy as "Additional Insured". Usually his insurance company requires it of anybody he contracts with. If the subcontractor causes a loss, the GC will be sued, anyway. The GC can then sue the subcontractor and be assured that he (actually his insurance co) will be reimbursed.

She or someone else would want to be listed so they have a paper trail showing people they might be contracting from that anyone working for them (you) is insured...she is not actually using your policy as if it were her own. I usually satisfied my customers by having a "Certificate of Insurance" sent directly to them from my insurance company.

Having both GL and Comp is a sizable investment in time and money but will take your company to the next level often times moving you to the front of the line of the uninsured.