Once and for all Dumpster Diving

Dumpster Diving Needs to have a clear answer
The scenario : dumpsters most of the time sit on private property ,Some times they sit in the street (in front of a home)
I get permission and I am so persistent that I win over individuals in charge as they see i am , safe , nice , honest . In a short time I get a wave how you do . or words of praise like better this then the land fill. In 3 years I was told no go twice and I obeyed . But am I (and we) leavening one party out, the owner of the dumpster. It seems to me they are are really at the loss . Sure the contributors of the trash can give the thumbs up for all reasons and of course a final one less weight for the purchaser of the dumpster service .
WELL do I also need permission from the Dumpster company cause when you come down to it why would a company ever say - SURE take out 2000 pounds of metal leaving behind rock ceiling tiles ECT , It's our pleasure to help out our fellow man and save people money heck thats why we have these containers to help people .I know i am being sarcastic. ONCE trash is in container on private property or street whose trash is it the original source or the container company
For obvious reasons if I get a thumbs up from the wrong person in charge like the home owner or GC - I might be in for a surprise from the container company as they MIGHT be the final word .

gonna be some good comments on this thread

how can you have trash as public domain and as private property, its either one or the other

Could the dumpster owners go and pick through with the purpose of recycling? Sure! If they wanted to...
It just not possible,in my opinion,or cost effective. I have seen to many loaded to the brim that had
no value orther than landfill material.I could see the owners of the dumpster denying any request to enter if you
were to ask.Everyone seems afraid of liability,can't blame them. But the contractor on the orther hand that rented
it,look the orther way,now they can possibly get more bang for there buck,because a recycler just removed
material making room for more.Myself I put most recyclables to the side of the tub and always disappears.

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Originally Posted by jghilino

gonna be some good comments on this thread

how can you have trash as public domain and as private property, its either one or the other

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It's very simple. Putting it to the curb is exposed to the public, and is considered abandoned property. This is why cops can search your trash without a warrant.

Putting trash in a container makes it the property of the container owner, and is transfer of ownership, not abandoning of property.

Bet that would stand up in court if cops wanted to search your dumpster instead of curb trash.

Landfills charge dumpster services by the ton to dump the debris within their roll off containers. So they may not care if you remove items. Only problem would be liability if you were to get hurt in the process.

Here as a example of a rental contract... http://www.nunesconst.com/uploads/Sa..._Agreement.pdf

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Originally Posted by BurlyGuys

It's very simple. Putting it to the curb is exposed to the public, and is considered abandoned property. This is why cops can search your trash without a warrant.

Putting trash in a container makes it the property of the container owner, and is transfer of ownership, not abandoning of property.

Bet that would stand up in court if cops wanted to search your dumpster instead of curb trash.

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in our area the trash containers residential and commercial are provided by the landfill, so if what your saying is true the trash is not public domain

There are many transfer stations across the US that trash is sorted through on a system of conveyer belts and people so that it can be sent to the proper place.

I would talk the the owners of the dumpsters but I don't know how large an area you live in here there are only 3 companies that own dumpsters

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Originally Posted by hobo finds

Landfills charge dumpster services by the ton to dump the debris within their roll off containers. So they may not care if you remove items. Only problem would be liability if you were to get hurt in the process.

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SO are you hinting at , the dumpster container companies charge a flat fee just to have a container at sight . Then certainty they would want less weight & yes I do remember a G C once saying pack it tight so to remove from job as much per container load as possible. If that's the case it's a win win for the company. Of course no company is going to say sure it's ok to take - Taylor - Waste Management and local names seem to leave me alone. It is possible there is a unwritten rule no company will admit to as
containers do say do not enter ,So we are at our own risk , yet saving them money
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So the real question should be Do container company's charge a flat price or charge by the pound for trash removed ?

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

containers do say do not enter

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You are right do not enter is on most dumpsters I have seen. Althogh this is a vague discription does that mean I can use a pole with a hook on it to fish items out and be ok? I think that if dumpster/trash companies were concerned about theivery there would be big bold letters saying DO NOT TAKE ITEMS FROM THIS DUMPSTER! most of them make their money on the use of their dumpster not the contents. In todays world of idiot stickers it would be on there if it was of major concern. It couldn't hurt to call the company and ask though i'm sure there is some liability insurance associated with their dumpsters so they will probably say stay out of them.

I think it as a flat rate charge up to so many tons. But when the container gets emptied out at the dump the dump charges them by the ton, so a full dumpster of dry carpet pad would cost less to dispose of than one full tiles, bricks and other heavy items...

From that contract link I posted...

Customer acknowledges that during the container rental, they will retain, care for, and control the containers contents.
Customer will indemnify and hold harmless Nunes & Sons Waste Services, LLC, its owners, employees,
agents and corporate associates of any damage or injury to persons or property while container is
in the customers possession and until its contents are disposed of and processed.
Customer is fully responsible for the entire contents of the container and is the rightful owner of the contents of the container until the contents are disposed of and accepted without protest by the respective disposal facility.In the event that contents which are not allowed by this contract or any Town, State or Federal Agency are
disposed of in the rented unit, all costs, fines, penalties, or any other action is taken for such disposal,
the customer is fully responsible for any and all charges associated with the handling of unauthorized items.
Costs may include and not be limited to cleanup, monitoring, testing, legal fees, penalties, and or any other
charges arising from depositing of unauthorized items in the container.

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

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So the real question should be Do container company's charge a flat price or charge by the pound for trash removed ?

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Both. In my experience around here, waste companies charge a flat rate to residential customers, and to commercial accounts with long term contracts. So if you are a private individual doing a reno of your home, you'll be quoted a fixed price to drop off a bin or roll-off for a set length of time, and then pick that bin up and dump it, no matter how much is or isn't in it. Same deal if you're a commercial account with a bin sitting at your business that gets dumped weekly or monthly or on whatever schedule you arrange. You're only charged a fixed rate. The only additional charges I've seen are for getting the bin emptied additional times, and those again are flat rates, not based on weight.

The only time I've known of charges based on weight is when a commercial account orders a roll-off. Then, after the usual rental and emptying fees, dump charges based on actual weight are added on.

Eta. Around here, garbage bins are just landfilled, not sorted for recycling. On a larger job such as a commercial reno, the waste companies sometimes drop off additional, separate recycling bins

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Originally Posted by BurlyGuys

It's very simple. Putting it to the curb is exposed to the public, and is considered abandoned property. This is why cops can search your trash without a warrant.

Putting trash in a container makes it the property of the container owner, and is transfer of ownership, not abandoning of property.

Bet that would stand up in court if cops wanted to search your dumpster instead of curb trash.

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The real answer is it depends on what state you are in. Generally, once you throw something away you abandoned it as BurlyGuys suggested and any one who retrieves the items may do what they wish with them. This is supported by Federal case law.

The State law varies by jurisdiction. For example, here in Indiana, the Supreme Court decided that "trash is trash" and once you throw something away you give up all rights to the items.

A. Fourth Amendment Doctrine

Searches of garbage are generally permissible under the Fourth Amendment to the Federal Constitution. Since Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 88 S.Ct. 507, 19 L.Ed.2d 576 (1967), the reasonableness of a search under the Fourth Amendment has turned on whether the subject of the search has an expectation of privacy and if so whether that subjective expectation is reasonable judged by the objective criterion of the views of society as a whole. Id. at 361, 88 S.Ct. 507 (Harlan, J., concurring). In California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35, 39, 108 S.Ct. 1625, 100 L.Ed.2d 30 (1988), the United States Supreme Court upheld the warrantless search of the defendant's garbage left at the curb for pickup. The Court reasoned that because the garbage was easily accessible to the public, the defendant did not have a reasonable expectation of its privacy. Federal courts have also upheld the warrantless search of garbage located on a resident's private property, focusing on the objective reasonableness of an expectation of privacy in the garbage rather than its location. Thus, in United States v. Kramer, 711 F.2d 789, 797 (7th Cir.1983), a warrantless search of the defendant's garbage was upheld where the garbage was located inside a low fence enclosing the defendant's yard. The court reasoned that the garbage had been abandoned and exposed to the public and the officers who seized the garbage did not threaten the peace and quiet of the defendant's home or interfere with his trash disposal routine. In United States v. Hedrick, 922 F.2d 396 (7th Cir.1991), the court sustained the search of trash located in the defendant's driveway eighteen feet from the sidewalk. The court took the view that it was common knowledge that members of the public often sort though others' garbage. As a result, "an expectation of privacy may be objectively unreasonable because of the common practice of scavengers, snoops, and other members of the public in sorting through garbage. In other words, garbage placed where it is not only accessible to the public but likely to be viewed by the public is `knowingly exposed' to the public 359*359 for Fourth Amendment purposes." Id. at 400.

A majority of states follow federal doctrine and hold that their state constitutions permit a warrantless search of trash that has been left out for collection based on a lack of a reasonable expectation of privacy.[1] As the Supreme Court of Maryland explained, "the law that has emerged since Greenwood is essentially the same as it was before that case was decided, although, as a general rule, it is based less on the property concept of abandonment than on the conclusion that, by depositing the trash in a place accessible to the public, for collection, the depositor has relinquished any reasonable expectation of privacy." State v. Sampson, 362 Md. 438, 765 A.2d 629, 634 (2001). Some states have rejected this view and have found trash searches violative of either the Fourth Amendment or their state constitutions. Most states reaching this conclusion have based it, contrary to Greenwood, on the view that a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy in garbage placed out for collection.[2]

While this decision relates to police searches, this next case is on point with scrappers...

Long v. Dilling Mechanical Contractors, Inc., 705 NE 2d 1022 - Ind: Court of Appeals 1999

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FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY

Dilling maintained an office building in Logansport, Indiana. Outside of the office building was a lidded dumpster in which Dilling deposited trash. This dumpster, which Dilling leased for its exclusive use, stood on Dilling's property and was located at the curtilage about two feet from a public sidewalk. The rear of the dumpster abutted the building, and Dilling had constructed a wall slightly taller than the dumpster around the two sides of the dumpster. There was no wall in front of the dumpster, which remained open to public access. A waste management firm, pursuant to a contract with Dilling, was assigned to dispose of materials placed in the dumpster.

Since February of 1995, Long had been employed by the Association as a labor organizer. Long was seeking to organize Dilling's employees for union membership. In the early morning of August 24, 1995, Long went to Dilling's Logansport property and removed five or six filled plastic trash bags from the dumpster. Long took these trash bags hoping they would contain records revealing the names and phone numbers of Dilling employees, with whom Long wished to discuss collective bargaining. Long took these trash bags to a hotel room, where he rummaged though the bags' contents. Long then re-bagged the trash and deposited it in the hotel's trash receptacle.

At some point, Dilling became aware of Long's activities and filed a complaint against the Defendants, alleging they were civilly liable to Dilling. Dilling claimed that Long and the other Defendants committed criminal offenses, including theft, receiving stolen property, criminal trespass, burglary and corrupt business influence. As a result, pursuant to Ind.Code §§ 34-4-30-1[1] (now Ind. Code § 34-24-3-1) and 34-4-30.5-5[2] (now 1024*1024 Ind.Code § 34-24-2-6), Dilling claimed it was entitled to treble damages.

Defendants filed a "Motion to Dismiss and/or for Summary Judgment," which requested that Dilling's corrupt business influence claim be dismissed and that summary judgment be entered in their favor on Dilling's other claims. Dilling responded with a cross-motion for summary judgment. On March 24, 1997, the trial court issued an interlocutory order denying the Defendants' motion and granting Dilling's motion for summary judgment.

In that order, the trial court found that Long, by taking trash bags from the Dilling dumpster, committed theft;[3] receiving stolen property;[4] criminal trespass;[5] burglary;[6] and corrupt business influence.[7] The trial court appears to have held that not only Long, individually, but also the Association and Local 166, by application of the respondeat superior doctrine, were civilly liable to Dilling for these offenses. The trial court concluded that Dilling was entitled to have its damages determined by a jury.

On February 20, 1998, the trial court's interlocutory order was certified for appeal. We heard oral argument on August 31, 1998.


We answer that question in the affirmative and conclude that, if a generator of trash wishes to retain ownership or control of that trash, then it must take affirmative steps to do so. Although Dilling claimed that the trash bags taken by Long contained Dilling's sensitive and confidential company documents, it took no steps to protect those documents from abandonment. Those documents were neither shredded, nor placed in locked containers nor in an area which was not readily accessible to others. When trash, whether it be documents or other discarded material, is placed in trash bags, and those trash bags are placed in an unlocked dumpster on the curtilage and readily accessible to others, that trash has been abandoned. In that context, trash is trash. As noted in Moran v. State, 644 N.E.2d 536, 541 (Ind. 1994), "[i]t has often been said that if you do not want others to know what you drink, don't put empties in the trash."

II. The Effect of Abandonment

As a result of Dilling's abandonment of its trash, its property rights were not abrogated by Long's taking of the bags. See Right Reason, 691 N.E.2d at 1351. Consequently, there can be no showing that Long committed theft, receiving stolen property, criminal trespass or burglary. In order to establish liability under any of these offenses as alleged, Dilling was required to show that it had a property right in the trash bags. Dilling cannot make this showing because it abandoned and, therefore, did not own the trash.

Nor can the Defendants be found liable for corrupt business influence. Ind.Code § 35-45-6-2 requires a "pattern of racketeering activity," which in this case would have been proven by the crimes of theft, receiving stolen property, criminal trespass and/or burglary resulting from Long's taking of the trash bags. Since Long did not commit 1027*1027 theft, receiving stolen property, criminal trespass or burglary, there can be no "pattern of racketeering activity." As a result, the Defendants cannot be liable for corrupt business influence.

The trial court erred when it entered summary judgment in Dilling's favor. Further, as Dilling cannot recover on any of the legal theories it advances, the trial court erred in refusing to grant the Defendants' summary judgment on Dilling's other claims. We therefore hold that Defendants' "Motion to Dismiss and/or for Summary Judgment" should have been granted.

I dumpster dive here in wilmington NC,got caught once or twice.It is still the peoples property in that dumpster that they pay them for that dumpster.As long as they are paying for that dumpster,trash can,etc it is still therir proprty.Thats what the manager at the food lion told me.I couldnt understand what the big deal is if everythings counted as loss anyway.

I feel I have my answer .My concern started when i spoke to some one who said his friend was arrested for going into a dumpster and removing things he was charged with grand larceny.
OK well some people just love to talk and connect a situation to every thing. I am sure this person took from a metal only container. It goes with out saying the mettle yard I sell to has roll offs If I pull stuff from them I would be arrested and banned. Taylor - Waste Management - I have also seen metal only.
Now lets get to the real deal, the mix container. after reading the posts i agree, flat rate pricing, and if they really wanted us out there would be signs in such a way that you would really know. I know customers are asked what they are going to be putting in.The trash company has it set so they will not loose .
So lets see were the dumpster diver fits in.
I am going to do an example per week , for each 10 containers of mix trash I feel 8 get picked about 24000 lb could be reclaimed by people like us (per week) A trash company owner once told me he has to pay .08 to drop off trash - so 24000 @ .08 = $ 1,910.00 per week.
So using this as a reference
per week $ 1,910.00
per month $8,256.00
per year $99,072.00
Nation wide each town in America $495,360,000.00 is probably modest
This is the best deal in town for the trash companies sure trash companies could reclaim but they pay there workers a good salary and it wont make them a profit Over all now I see Dumpster Divers are a free labor force allowing trash companies to sell there trash off the books for .08 per pound.
I do know of some states that do have it worked out - mechanized and they reclaim all the trash into a usable product but thats not nation wide yet & until then we are here to pick up the slack . I truly feel if you took each and every container company in the USA, the reclaimed metal from all dumpsters by scrappers is MASSIVE & more then my figures.further more since many of us our life is on the edge we are very careful not to cause trouble. We can't stop the thieves but we can easily be superior to them , any one who has a fast conversation with any one from this board can see we have knowledge above and beyond pertaining to metal.
Now I see I can add Taylor trash and others to my resume I am a Freelance disposal specialist .

in Oregon... but i am not a lawer...
if on private property you need permision from the land owner/ business owner untill the dumpster is on the truck the waste company does not assume any liability. if it is in the public domain it is considered transfered to the waste company when it is put into the dumpster, but they still dont assume the liability untill it is returned to thier posesion ie on the truck. my experience has been if you show up with a step ladder hard hat and yellow/ orange. park with the bed of my truck backed up to the dumpster. the local cops will stop to see what you are doing and will wait till you are done, to ensure that you dont make a mess. and with the ladder they feel comfortable that i can safely exit the dumpster. with the hard hat and other safety gear they can see that i am taking appropiate risk managment measures. i will always take the tme to clean up the general area that the dumpster is in. which i've had several managers come out to yell at me and then thank me when they saw what i was doing.

I feel the hard hat is so very important - I actually found 2 of mine . Dressing the part is the best way to blend in with the laborious situation.

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Originally Posted by badkarma506

in Oregon... but i am not a lawer...
if on private property you need permision from the land owner/ business owner untill the dumpster is on the truck the waste company does not assume any liability. if it is in the public domain it is considered transfered to the waste company when it is put into the dumpster, but they still dont assume the liability untill it is returned to thier posesion ie on the truck. my experience has been if you show up with a step ladder hard hat and yellow/ orange. park with the bed of my truck backed up to the dumpster. the local cops will stop to see what you are doing and will wait till you are done, to ensure that you dont make a mess. and with the ladder they feel comfortable that i can safely exit the dumpster. with the hard hat and other safety gear they can see that i am taking appropiate risk managment measures. i will always take the tme to clean up the general area that the dumpster is in. which i've had several managers come out to yell at me and then thank me when they saw what i was doing.

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