torch vs saw experince

I was reading over patriot's torch thread for the 10th time and got to thinking about what I have learned and experienced over the last month now that I have been cutting/burning a fair amount. Basically when using saws, grinders and anything that generates sparks we have had small issues with fire when cutting in non shop settings. We have had no issues when using the torch. I am guessing this has something to do with a higher level of situational awareness when burning rather than cutting but also the lack of control over sparks and build up of metal shavings. Even when using those fancy carbide blades with teeth there was a lack of spark control. Its been a good learning experience and I have the opportunity to implement safety features before it becomes an issue. Im putting an extinguisher on my torch cart and am going to keep some buckets of clay on the trailer to put down if need be. Mostly im going to keep the saws on dirt or concrete if I can help it.

They make a fireproof blanket like the fire dept's use, don't know how hard they would be to get ahold of.

fastenal should have fire blanket...when i work on boiler jobs we literally have the stuff by the trailor load on the job site....what we use looks kinda like orange burlap, and it comes on rolls 50 ft long by 6 ft wide....i may not be spelling fastenal right..ive never saw the word spelled i just know thats where most of the stuff like that comes from in my area

Here's a pretty cheap one from Amazon,
Amazon.com : Vktech Fire Blanket Emergency Survival Fire Shelter Safety Blanket Gear : Job Site Safety Equipment : Sports & Outdoors

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...AL._SX425_.jpg

Or make your own fire retardant liquid and soak a blanket in it then let it dry.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7833023_home...chemicals.html

if i were working at the moment i could send you as much as you could ever use...we are not allowed to use a piece for more than 1 shift..then it must be replaced......that stuff is very important when your working on 20 story structures and everything is grating ....

it isnt really fire proof completley.. it will eventually burn..the thing is that it will not flame up, if that makes any sense...it will kinda cinder away slowly like a cigarette that you are not puffing on.....you can put it out by smacking it or stomping it a couple times very easily

Fire retardant blankets are available in a variety of locations. I like Mech. idea of creating your own and love Wardarbr resource. As far as a fire extinguisher, I buy large boxes of baking soda and pour them in old laundry detergent bottles to keep it dry. It is much cheaper than and extinguisher and very handy.

Well now I just feel a little silly, a fire blanket never accrued to me, I even have one. I do however like very much the idea of making my own, borax and boraic acid are two good things to keep around anyway.

A good informative thread.

I noticed your use of the term "situational awareness", I have heard this term used many times in the past. Thank you for your service. Mike

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Originally Posted by miked

A good informative thread.

I noticed your use of the term "situational awareness", I have heard this term used many times in the past. Thank you for your service. Mike

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And Thank you for yours, I am currently trying to teach my teenage son situational awareness, or at least enough so he can live past his teens. Its slow going, maybe yelling and push up would help :)

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Originally Posted by beardo

And Thank you for yours, I am currently trying to teach my teenage son situational awareness, or at least enough so he can live past his teens. Its slow going, maybe yelling and push up would help :)

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if you are interested,,,the next time im at the hall paying dues i will see if we have anymore old saftey books...i know they have been trying to give a truckload or so away for a while...there are some with a lot of good knowledge inside them...im particularly fond of the ones on lead,asbestos,pcb, and radiation awarness....

folks who have never done any construction or scrapping often dont think of the hidden dangers....

Left out of my OP was the slow realization that came to me, Whenever possible the torch seems to always be not only the fastest but also the safest. I have a background of tree work so using saws, big and small was something I have been use to and have become comfortable with the dangers. However I have never had a blade shatter on a torch. I have never gotten a torch jammed in something im cutting and so on. Obviously sawzalls, grinders and all other metal cutting saws have there place, and there are many circumstances where a saw is the safe and correct tool. Im glad I have grown comfortable with the ways of fire. Maybe next I can get some of those fancy tools that run on those battery things and don't even have cords.

I've spent all my 9-5 time in sawmills, where fire is a constant danger when doing repair work, with either torches, welders, air arcs, grinders or the like. And the torch is just about the no. 1 tool used in a sawmill.

One item that hasn't been mentioned is water. The absolutely simplest but very effective fire protection is a simple garden hose with a hand sprayer on it. Another item is a p*ss can...a can that holds about 5 gallons of water with a hand pump built onto the hose. These things are heavily used in the forest fire fighting business. In the sawmills, we would put a little winshield washer anti-freeze into them (environmentally friendly and all) so you could use it in freezing weather.

I use the cans when working around the farm-- easy to have with you and effective.

For those that do metal cutting with a saw, a combination of cutting to watch for is aluminum and steel. The combination of steel and aluminum can get you pretty close to thermite, which is a combination of a metal and an oxide. It only takes a spark to ignite. Its not explosive but will burn very hot--enough to melt steel. There's stories around where guys have machined aluminum in a lathe and then went on to machining steel without cleaning up the bed....and burnt their lathe in half. Just another thing to be "situationally aware of" when cutting metals.


Jon.

i agree with sawmilleg 100 percent , around my house or my little workshop i always try to keep a water hose handy when im cutting,,one of those old brass pump cans saved my trailor and truck once back when i was younger and dumber,,,i was burning something off an old jeep cherokee while it was loaded and chained to my car trailor...

in most of the plants i work in it is against the rules to attempt to extinguish a fire with water, unless you obtain special permission from the saftey office........any type of hot work at all requires a hot work permit....to obtain the permit the foreman has to coordinate with the saftey officer, his crew , anyone else in the nearby areas, and at least one regular plant worker...once the job has been surveyed out they decide how many fire watch workers will be needed and what equipment they will be issued in case of an accident...

most of the time they will give us 2 fire extinguishers and a couple 5 gallon buckets of some type of soda ash.. it is rare but some times we will be given a water hose and told to keep the area wetted down..this is very rare and is usually in chemical plants and not power houses...the biggest part of the time we are specifically told under no circumstance to use water...these plants contain various types of chemicals and even flammable metals, also electric lines are involved a lot of the times...

Two things came to me reading this thread: 1. We have all talked about how we separate our scrap. Place the yellow brass in a 5 gallon bucket, the #2 insulated wire in it's 5 gallon bucket etc. etc. The bucket we should maybe fill first, before cutting or grinding is the 5 gallon water bucket! Probably the fastest and easiest way to distinguish that small accidental "spark" fire. I'm talking about a fire should it get going past the smoldering "snuff out stage". A 5 gallon bucket of water is cheap, portable and easy to put a lot of water in one place fast. I'm sure most of us could fill it up faster than all of the other buckets we fill with the various scrap (especially the OMG it's GOLD one). 2. I have many years managing people and overall operations. Doing so I have had to deal with minor and major accidents/incidents. After dealing with the actual event, making sure the injured are treated, securing the area, the clean-up, and all of the many task needed after a major accident. The ones where people get hurt, property is damaged, and "normal" business is impacted. Who ever is in charge, has to determine how/why it happened. Their most important responsibility is coming up with answers/solutions to prevent and try to eliminate a repeat of similar accidents. Almost always there is three "facts" that repeat after a accident. Some of the preventable solutions were simple (as simple as a 5 bucket of water). There is always a chain of events, where one mishap leads to another, with each getting progressively more unsafe and less manageable. The third fact that is almost always present in evaluating and preventing accidents is COMPLACENCY. It's complacency, people (me too), we think we know what we are doing. We start taking risk, task for granted, utilize short cuts or "tricks". Complacency IMO is the most expensive word in the english language, it occurs when we stop listening, learning and thinking. Just my $.02 for what it's worth.