bunch of welders

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8498/8...26452e839d.jpg

I purchased a pile of mig welders and they threw in this sweet old arc welder. It's a heavy son of a gun. I'm gonna try and sell it as I think it's too cool to scrap. It doesn't have much time though, as it's in the way. Anyone know how much copper this thing is likely to have in it?

I'll try to update this thread with more pics and info as I process the welders. I will be trying to re-sale the welders before they are scrapped.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8...13322fdae9.jpg

looks like "Better than scrap value" items there.
Good score!
whadya pay?

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

looks like "Better than scrap value" items there.
Good score!
whadya pay?

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I think about 30 cents a pound, maybe a bit less.:) It was far from free, but even if I just scrap it I think I will come out ahead. Included another big Linde, a big Miller, a plasma cutter, and more stuff. Pretty much all in working condition. It was removed from a factory that had reconfigured it's manufacturing lines.

I scrapped one like your first picture last summer. If I remember, there was about ten pounds of copper.

That was without the cables.

do you have the skills and electrical set up to test them?

no. They are 3 phase. Was told all but 2 are 100% working and the 2 that aren't are identical machines that could be combined to make a worker.

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Originally Posted by Mick

I scrapped one like your first picture last summer. If I remember, there was about ten pounds of copper.

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What was all the rest of the weight? much oil?

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Originally Posted by Caveman

What was all the rest of the weight? much oil?

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No oil. Just "light iron".

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8215/8...e419d84bc9.jpg


Another part of the haul. From what I can figure out they are best used for aluminum welding. Both are spooled with aluminum. It looks like the "A" model was converted over to also have water. Definitely won't be scrapping them. I had hoped to keep some of the equipment for my own use. Is this overkill?

cool deal man! Start building battleships :D

Sometimes the copper can be hard to separate in the terms of #1 or#2.I have gotten a bunch of cu out of some of
the older welders.

Cave, I think you would be better off to just torch the bolts off the outer shield and recover the transformer from the inside. Call you yard and ask what they are paying for transformers. It honestly should be the same price as electric motors. Different brokers have different specs though. Just send the rest of the core in as sheet iron and HMS. Strip the leads and get barebright price for them. WIN WIN. I have cut up countless welders but my favorite kinda welder is a spot welder especially the big ones used in the steel mills and automotive plants.

i am looking for a used stick welder must be minimum of 100% duty cycle at 200 amps, i need id for running a gouge and for running 5/32 rod, i have a miller mig welder that runs solid wire i can trade, i am also i need a a 5 hp electric motor for a compressor, our 3hp motor does not cut it anymore

I'm a long ways from Kansas City and I really don't think you would want to be using this piece of equipment for business use. I would imagine it looking pretty cool in some sort of classic car garage.

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Originally Posted by Caveman

I'm a long ways from Kansas City and I really don't think you would want to be using this piece of equipment for business use. I would imagine it looking pretty cool in some sort of classic car garage.

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Actually we still use those old welders at powerplants, cant tell you how many millers we have burned up, those old generator style welders last forever. The windings in them are much larger and they are built a whole lot better than modern welding machines.

how many amps do those big ones go up to?

I had a non- functional welder I scrapped last year. Heavy sob! About half the weight was copper.

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Originally Posted by jghilino

...how many amps do those big ones go up to?

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That P&H is a 200 amp 100% welder. 3 phase. No idea if it works, but would bet money it does. The insulation is very cracked on the wires.

Haven't got a chance to inventory the others yet.

Here's a couple of Cobramatic wire feeders that were part of the haul. They look well used. One of them has a 3/0 power line.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8214/8...8c8ddd91e6.jpg

I used to use one of those cobramatics. Was probably the best push/pull wire feed I ever used for big aluminum jobs!

id love to have a 3 phase 200 amp welder, the problem is we dont have 3 phase power so id have to run it from the nearest transformer/power line and that would cost a couple thousand dollars. Right now 220volts is what i am limited to.

I hear ya about the 3 phase. Workers at where I picked these up said they had bought the 220 stuff and would like to buy some parts of the Linde power supplies. They figured the switches and stuff should be the same. My garage is about 10 feet from the power pole so it would be cheaper for me to have 3 phase wired. Also found a work around for the Miller CP-250TS that was part of the package. Here is that page: How to Modify the CP-250TS for Single Phase and Short Arc Welding Might go ahead and convert that one. I think I already have the capacitors.

Here are the power supplies and the plasma cutter that were the major part of the haul. Excuse the messy garage. No heat, so it doesn't get much use this time of the year.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8498/8...c4aa295afc.jpg

Anyone know how much scrap is in a Linde VI-252 power supply? A worker at the factory mentioned he tore down a similar unit and got $350 in copper out of it. That would be a bit over a hundred pounds. Sound about right?

That sounds right, those old big machines have huge windings in them.

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Originally Posted by jghilino

Actually we still use those old welders at powerplants, cant tell you how many millers we have burned up, those old generator style welders last forever. The windings in them are much larger and they are built a whole lot better than modern welding machines.

how many amps do those big ones go up to?

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The smoothest welder I ever used was an electric motor driven generator, an old Lincoln.

That pair of Miller migs the base XR gun starts at $1800.00 and the price goes up from there. if you have the water cooled version it's pricey.

Have you considered making a home made roto phase to run 3 phase equipment off of single phase.

I have been kicking around the idea of using an arc welder to make a submerged arc furnace. If someone had the knowledge and experience/ability to make an submerged arc furnace from an arc welder, I might be interested in talking about purchasing something like that.

Scott

all i know about sub arc is its flat position welding and they use some type of sand as flux, other than that i have no idea

"Have you considered making a home made roto phase to run 3 phase equipment off of single phase." i have no idea but its worth looking into, this 220 volt equipiment is not what im used to using. All the welders we use at powerplants are 480 3 phase. I guess i could y 2 220volt buzz boxes together so i could run 300 amps off of 220 current as another option.

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Originally Posted by jghilino

all i know about sub arc is its flat position welding and they use some type of sand as flux, other than that i have no idea

"Have you considered making a home made roto phase to run 3 phase equipment off of single phase." i have no idea but its worth looking into, this 220 volt equipiment is not what im used to using. All the welders we use at powerplants are 480 3 phase. I guess i could y 2 220volt buzz boxes together so i could run 300 amps off of 220 current as another option.

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Since this eqiupment is wired 3 phase 220 volts you got half the battle beat as this is the voltage required to use the roto phase.

A roto phase is not a conveter, it merly adds the missing 3rd leg to your 3 phase equipment.

Easy to make, all you need is a 3 phase electric motor wired for 220 volts. Look on the manufactures tag for the voltages the motor will run on.

Ok the three phase motor does not have start windings, but it does require 3 live. For your roto phase your going to take two live wires from your electrical service connected to a switch. Use a washiing machine or similar 110 volt single phase motor to get the 3 phase turning over then switch on the 220 volts from your single phase mains.

Are you with me so far, now that the 3 phase is running under its own power no longer required the 110 volt electric motor, that empty 3rd leg that should have had t he 3rd leg from the 3 phase service is actually generating power. Yes sir this is the leg you need to run three phase equipment such as welders, lathe or milling machine. You name it you can run it.

You can build more complicated roto's that use capacitors to self start, I prefer the cheap way using the 110 volt electric motor.

For a more permanent situation over using belts and pulleys couple the two electric motors together using a love joy coupler, that 110 will just spin along with the roto while its powered up.

Get a 5 hp 3 phase for this project the scrap yards have plenty and sell by the pound.

If your running a lathe and the motor is running opposite to what the start switch indicates, just swap any pair of wire going to the lathe - bingo your motor now starts in the right direction.

I love 3 phase equipment when its sold on auction no one know how to deal with it, so it sell cheap.

Using any 3 phase electric motor up to 10 horse power, just feed two wires from your 220 volt single phase source and tap your 3rd leg off of that spare wire which now goes to the 3 phase equipment you want to power up.

Just remember to get that 3 phase motor turning first before giving her the juice.

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Good stuff Gustavus. Thanks for sharing.

I've decided those Linde power plants are going to be the first thing dismantled. Should be fun bringing in more than the $42 truckload of shred I just brought in.

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Originally Posted by Caveman

Good stuff Gustavus. Thanks for sharing.

I've decided those Linde power plants are going to be the first thing dismantled. Should be fun bringing in more than the $42 truckload of shred I just brought in.

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The large machines should have a selenium rectifier inside, if not very large diodes, and those rheostats, volt and amp meters and large those wire wound resistors should ebay.

Single phase welder has 4 diodes while your three phase will have 6 half of those will be positive case the nut side while the rest will be negative on the securing nut, bear that in mind when your offering them for sale.

Any large capacitor or toroid coils the Tesla and high voltage geeks go nuts over this stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil

Selenium Rectifier
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...m/selenium.jpg

Wire wound resistor
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...d-Resistor.jpg

Rheostat
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...m/rheostat.jpg

Diode
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...orum/diode.jpg

Capacitor
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...Capacitors.jpg

Toroid Coil
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...rum/toroid.jpg

I noticed a couple of those wire wound resistors while doing the disassembly of one of the Linde's today. I'm not an ebay'er right now, have to get working on that. Here is a pic of most of the insides of the unit.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8072/8...afff45f445.jpg


Pile 1 includes the fan and power cable, it weighs 45 pounds.
Transformer 2 weighs 60 lbs.
3 weighs 10.
variable auto transformer 4 weighs 25.
5 weighs 75.
6 weighs 40.

So, 210 pounds in Transformers plus the other pile of goodies and the steel case. 210 x $.30 = $63.00 and all I can find from the local scrap yards posted online is $.27 a pound for transformers or electric motors. It will be interesting to see how these things weigh out when disassembled. There is a lot of steel in them and I'm not sure if it'll even be profitable to strip the copper off of them.

Yea, make sure you check the resale value on that stuff before you go any further with it. Sometimes an angle grinder or chop saw works good on transformers like that. My question is what are you gonna use the castor bases of the welders you scrap out, they would make good carts or could be used for putting motors and transmissions on so you can roll it around your shop.

The top welder. Is it a motor-generator sort of welder?

I have used them but they are normally standing up.

If it is, its a 50volt (+ or -5 volts) generator run by a electric motor, connected to the wall socket. Might have better resale value.

They could be used as a generator powered by water etc.

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Originally Posted by eesakiwi

The top welder. Is it a motor-generator sort of welder?...

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The arc welder in the first post of the thread? I have gotten a couple of offers on it, but about the same as scrap value.

I recently scrapped a Miller CP 250 which is a 250 amp three phase machine. It yeilded about 60 pounds of copper. I found that there is not much market for the three phase machines. I did see a Linde like the one in the picture go for about $250 at a local auction. The shop teacher at Illiniois State Universty bought it. I just bought a Miller SCP 200 which is a single phase 200 amp machine. It looks like it will most likely yield around 40 or 50 pounds of copper.

I am talking to someone about 10 or more Miller Dialarc 250 welders. They are not all working, he said some leads have been cut. If I offered him $50 each is that too much? I assume they are all untested.
Chris

I think you will do just fine at $50 each. The CP250 yielded me $196 worth of copper. There is also a fair amount of aluminum plate inside these power sources.

Interesting day....Just sold some accessories off of the plasma cutter. The inside is filled with things in Gustavus' pics above. Diodes, wire wound resistors, large capacitors galore. The person buying the accessories really wanted me to throw the insides in with the deal, but wasn't willing to pay me for them.

He also mentioned it wasn't worth the time to tear apart computers for scrapping. :confused: