Scrappers control the Currency of the future! Hold your Copper, Silver, GOLD FINGERS

China has put clamp on the buying due to over production.
This was on purpose. This is their MOMENT TO BUY!

Soon, prices will skyrocet, and you will sell again! (DONT)

I fear our DOLLAR WILL FAIL in the next two months.(NOW)

I've lost faith in our GOV.

Were going to have QE3, crazy INFLATION, and another wave of FORECLOSURES

ITS TOAST> HOUSE OF CARDS COMING DOWN>

OPTIONS? Deal in real money ie gold silver and other precious metals.

ITS ALL CHINA WILL ACCEPT TO PAY OUR DEBT CAUSE OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH SH*T AFTER THE THIRD ROUND OF PRINTING OUT OF THIN AIR!

HENCE, THE GOV WILL DEMAND ALL YOUR GOLD AND SILVER!

AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

AT LEAST WERE ALL IN THE COMMODITIES MARKET AND CAN COME BY THESE METALS EASIER. USE THIS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE AND SURVIVE THE UPCOMING CRASH!

tcgs while i do not beleive that your entire post is correct i do see where holding is a somewhat smart move but for different reasons

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Libertytow

smart move but for different reasons

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Please elaborate. Id like to see as many angles as I can, being closed minded only holds me back.

A failed dollar means either

Metal Money or BITCOIN or ?????

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...leyway-economy

for the conspiracy theorists let me elaborate holding in a down amarket is usually a good move the dollar has fallen as far as 3rd wave of foreclosures what NEEDs to happen in this country is for house /home prices to come down to the least common denominator in the 40"s you could buy a house for $5600 in the 50's 7k in the 70"s $20k today in my area the median home price is $200k yet we have one of the highest unemployment rates and only a median salary average of $36k accross the sate in a state where somerset county holds th e highest capita of millionaires in the country WTF

home prices have top come down to make it affordable for people to move out and into a home

Fact homeownership creates jobs
Fact average person moves 7 times in their lifetime
Fact as home prices increased and Wages decreaded the middle class line was desimated

there asre more home in refinance right now than new mortgages

there are more college grads working in walmart than the government

us has invested money in mortgage backed liar loans so when the mortgage market tanked so did the loans

if we had our youth excited to buy starter homes that were affordable that would get $$$ flowing back into a already stagnant realestate system thus moving the economy forward

Like the article, thanks for sharing!

I disagree a bit. (ps i am a homeowner and 30 years old, bought in 08 just b4 the crash.)(licensed RE Agent)
(our housing market is the house of CARDS)

It the lending that is getting us in trouble. New Home Buyers Use FHA %90 of the time. Hence Freddy and Fannie are so In debt.

people are putting $2000 down on a house worth 60 k. This saving of 2k does not make a buyer qualified for such a commitment.

We built this country on DEBT
Now the DEBT is coming back for the rest of it.

More home buyers means more DEBT

Less Home Buyers means more UNEMPLOYMENT

then so be it. Go create your own job. I did.



Asking people to keep buying homes is like saying lets keep this tilt a whirl of death spinning.


like I said, preparing for another crash.

in theory yes in practice no

we got in trouble by lending to the wrong people

we put people in houses we KNEW they couldn"t afford

we built mc mansions and wondered why they were vaccant

we demolished starter home to build them then wonder why nobody can afford a home

95% of this country lives way above their means the ones living in them aren"T jumnping to go buy a home because the prices don"t make sence

i am 29 so you and i are the same age how many of your freinds are still living at home are underemployed or employed at all

answer those and see wherre is goes thee system worked for 60 years than we lent to the wrong people and backed it with illusion $$$ we took away the illusion $$$ but the houses are no vaccant with no buyers in site

people only get older not younger there is a transition aas we get older from starter home to bigger home adda a kid or 2 better job little bigger home then retire kids move out we downsize each transition follows

what we have done is not moved the starter homes at a time when babyboomers want to retire there is a gap in the market becuase of pricing at both ends

lets assume your right for a second that scrappers controll the currency holding doesn"t make it worth more any open mine producing puts you right back out of the running

the problem with commodities is they are based on limited supply if i am hodling and you are selling my commoditie becomes less valued

stock market bombed in the last 2 hours of trading friday, dropped 200+ points, maybe a sign of things to come, government is losing more control everyday, where metals will end up its hard to tell, i am assuming they will run the presses to prop up the companies as the fallout happens, pushing up metals prices, the problem is that running the presses will push up all commodities like oil and that will hurt everyone even more

people will pull out of stocks and move into metals as the market falls

I don't always believe posts purporting foresight into the macroeconomic future of our nation, but when I do, they're not posts rife with misspellings & grammatical errors. ;)

Look, I've said it time and time and time again: no-one, and I mean NO-ONE knows what tomorrow will bring. There are more likely scenarios and there are less likely scenarios, but NO scenario is a foregone conclusion. If you'd told me 4 years ago that the Dow would be over 15000 right now I would have laughed in your face. If you'd told me that market returns in Bamajelly's first term would rival those of Clinton's administrations I would have looked into having you committed. Yet both happened, however unlikely they were. The market could crash tomorrow, and we could be on the cusp of a global fiscal meltdown the likes of which has never been seen..... or four years from now we could be posting, "If you'd told me four years ago that the Dow was going to be 23000 right now, I'd have laughed in your face."

It is possible to see into the future. Its called foresight.
Misspelling happens when we're trying to use the touchscreen telephones to type an email or post.
Rather be the guy ready to change that the guy who has to change expectedly.
You disagree with my prediction that is fine. Don't go telling people their wrong when you don't know what is right.
Last month someone posted that their yard manager said they're going to lose $20 it on and it happened. Commodities are little bit different than stocks to tell whether going to go because there are actual tells to show us.
Macroeconomics is great you should take the class. Its not a guessing game or roulette game there actual indicators that will tell us what the market will do.

Maybe the Govt should have let a few banks fail the first time around and not bailed them out. Maybe someone would have learned a lesson. That was OUR money that was used and what did we get for it? More poor lending practices, more debt, more BS !! Start learning Chinese everyone because when they call in the markers what do you think is going to happen?

we got in trouble by lending to the wrong people
(we got in trouble by lending too much.)
(ive seen capable people abandon a house cause its price not cashflow)

House worth 100k on a loan of 97k, market drops, owners bail, banks now have a home worth 80k that they spent 97k on

we put people in houses we KNEW they couldn"t afford
(ARM!!!!!!) Ajdustable Rate Mortgage, You can afford it at 3% but not %5.
(Better hope our market does great!!!! HindSight)

we built mc mansions and wondered why they were vaccant
(Fully capable people giving up cause they owe more than its worth)
(dumb Investments)(bad Finances)

we demolished starter home to build them then wonder why nobody can afford a home
(NOBODY IS LENDING AT 97%)(PEOPLE WANT TO BUY)
HOUSING SHORTAGE, NOT BUYER SHORTAGE
SELLERS DONT WANT TO SELL TILL PRICES ARE UP

95% of this country lives way above their means the ones living in them aren"T jumnping to go buy a home because the prices don"t make sence
(Your right, the majority of us are way over leveraged and not good with $)
(oh id jump on houses right now. man is it a great time for RE, I expect it to be short tho.)

i am 29 so you and i are the same age how many of your friends are still living at home are underemployed or employed at all
(Most of my HS friends are burn outs, and people my age have no drive. Ive been employed since 13 and have never needed unemployment, unfortunately my friends have.)

answer those and see where is goes thee system worked for 60 years than we lent to the wrong people and backed it with illusion $$$ we took away the illusion $$$ but the houses are no vacant with no buyers in site

(MINOR CHANGES) THE SYSTEM THAT HAS WORKED FOR 60 YEARS HAS FINALLY FAILED. WE LENT OUT TOO MUCH TO THE WRONG PEOPLE AND HAVE TRIED TO BUY OUR WAY OUT WITH PHONY CASH. THE RICH ARE BUYING AND POOR ARE FORECLOSED.

people only get older not younger there is a transition aas we get older from starter home to bigger home adda a kid or 2 better job little bigger home then retire kids move out we downsize each transition follows
(The american dream? Get a starter home, them move to a bigger home, and have a kid or two, and a decent job, retire when kids move out, and downsize to fit new lifestyle?)
(My american dream. Get a home, settle in, try to make $, buy a second home, live in that, rent the other out. Build a big business, have a large house, with land, time to spend there, and time to spend with my kids and grand kids. Oh and Scrap metal millionaire)

lets assume your right for a second that scrappers control the currency holding doesn"t make it worth more any open mine producing puts you right back out of the running
(holding is only your savings, imagine when the farmers will only accept real money for milk or bread, what will you use? I have silver dimes, worth about 2-3 each and these will pay for my food when the dollar cant.

%$%$%$%$%$%
Right now steel pays XXX/Ton
if the dollar is devalued by 50 % Steel will pay 2*XXX/ton
Good pay in bad times for people in the right biz SCRAPPERS!!!!!
$^^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^^$

the problem with commodities is they are based on limited supply if i am holding and you are selling my commodities becomes less valued

(IN MACROECONOMICS you and I are hardly a factor, now CHINA is a factor.)

Tcgs,
My grandfather has been telling me this for years. Its gonna happen and nobody knows when. I'm also preparing for this.

If anyone wants to do a bit of research on their own, I would look for speeches and videos from Ron Paul and Bill Still. While these two say they disagree with each other, they both agree that this change is coming. They can also give you a bit of FORESIGHT as to where we actually are today.
Bill Still's Secret of Oz
Videos - Campaign for Liberty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tcgs

A failed dollar means either

Metal Money or BITCOIN or ?????

---

Ammo, food, and gas. Barter system. Gold and silver wont have a value either untill the system reboots. If USA dollar goes the way of weimar republic the rest of the world will follow.

Sorry PTS, I have a little ammo, and yes it will be worth its weight in gold.
I do have some fuel sources, and it will be worth its weight in water.
I can help do chores for room and board in a farm.
But My gold and Silver will pay for my extra ammo, fuel and water sources

Your also saying that there will be no real jobs, How can I go to work for Motorola and get paid in ammo food or gas.

There are solutions to keeping our way of life, our capitalistic society, where dreamers dreams can come true.

What would it take to get gold and silver to replace everyones paper money?


First the GOV needs these metals to distribute and collect against your now worthless cash.

BITCOIN is just like a dollar. Its mostly a number in a bank account with some physical paper or coin money. ITs just a rebranding of our failed dollar. Something we can print out of thin air again when we need a boost in our economy.

Gold and silver are finite, which means that there is only so much wealth to go along, and when the rich have it all there is no way for the poor to aspire.? I hope i am wrong there.

Calculator for Bitcoins (BTC) Currency Exchange Rate Conversion

BITCOIN exchange rate info

1 is a little over $118 USD

fractional silver and gold are good to have regardless of what happens

i am holding off on the bitcoin rigs till the ati 8000's come down in price, not ready to start the builds yet but its coming, i am planning on building 3 rigs with 3 cards each, platinum certified power supplies have already come down and so have the ssd's

You are forgetting the other key factor in economics - demand. Where will be the demand if the market tanks and new products are more expensive?

Anything is possible, a massive war could break out and oil, copper, nickel and steel could be the most valuable. And the ones stockpiling steel and copper would win. Or precious metals could take off due to new technologies needing them. Thats why its important to diversify into various commodities.

Like ewasted said new products being more expensive. And that is definitely happening, look at what palladium and platinum have done in recent years due to emissions demand. What will happen once the car boom in china is over to the prices of platinum and palladium?

a worldwide depression would cut industrial demand to nothing, along with hyperinflation which would cause people to pull out of currencies and move into commodities

I have no guns so I don't have any ammo
I don't have any gold or silver except the ones on the circuit boards in my warehouse
I don't have freeze dried ready to eat meals stored away somewhere
I don't have any stored reserve source of gas

I do have a yellow belt in karate which I earned at the very young age of 11( purely coincidental that it was around the time of the release of The Karate Kid)
I have a pretty big jar filled with coins( no pennies) so I can survive off of vending machine food for a very long time( Bread and water is overrated)
I have a 2 gallon container half filled with gasoline mixed with some special extra engine performance for my lawn mower so I will be able to keep my lawn looking good for a month or so depending on the time of year a catastrophe happens...
I have a videotape of the 1986 World series to help me get through those times that all seem lost
I have the new Dan Brown book which is just under 500 pages so I am covered on the entertainment aspect for a few days

So if some great collapse happens I am pretty secure in the fact that I am well prepared and will survive it.
The main point of all this is that for every report of doom and gloom there are equal reports of stabilization and hope. We all work our asses off most days and because of that the large majority of us can withstand and survive another downturn....

The key is to live amongst your means.. enjoy and treat yourself to things when you can ... Think positive and realize that as a collective we have very little knowledge or ability to really forecast the extreme aspects of economics on here and remember to spay and neuter your pets

For these events to come forth you still need more catastrophe - terrorist taking out targets - massive drought - power grid failures - getting past that , sure haveing metal stashed away as a means to get what is used to purchase goods ( cash ) will always be the secret bank account of a scrapper . lets be realistic if I had a million pounds of lead ,same for brass, copper - lets not forget 100,000 onces of silver - - - and the room to store it , I would feel like i could ride out any storm .

In reality if bad times really hit ,What 98% OF US HAVE AS A HORDING STASH will get chewed up fast ,then we are done . I guess if I had massive money to play with, I'd get a lot of - lead - copper - silver - gold - but in the mean time I have bills taking most of my money - sure any time i see $25 bucks spent as a waste i say that should of been silver .

I have the family thing every body wants and wants - whats a poor guy to do. I keep finding copper & brass, I try to sell off as little as I can, I buy silver 4 to 5 ounce a month thats the best i can do and it wont be enough , if the banks fail us

PS
why spay the dogs and cats they will help you survive . Some can hunt for you and some you can sell to Chinese restaurants
(look thats an old standing joke , so no one get bent out of shape) In china they do eat cat and dog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Copper Head

For these events to come forth you still need more catastrophe - terrorist taking out targets - massive drought - power grid failures - getting past that , sure haveing metal stashed away as a means to get what is used to purchase goods ( cash ) will always be the secret bank account of a scrapper . lets be realistic if I had a million pounds of lead ,same for brass, copper - lets not forget 100,000 onces of silver - - - and the room to store it , I would feel like i could ride out any storm .

In reality if bad times really hit ,What 98% OF US HAVE AS A HORDING STASH will get chewed up fast ,then we are done . I guess if I had massive money to play with, I'd get a lot of - lead - copper - silver - gold - but in the mean time I have bills taking most of my money - sure any time i see $25 bucks spent as a waste i say that should of been silver .

I have the family thing every body wants and wants - whats a poor guy to do. I keep finding copper & brass, I try to sell off as little as I can, I buy silver 4 to 5 ounce a month thats the best i can do and it wont be enough , if the banks fail us

PS
why spay the dogs and cats they will help you survive . Some can hunt for you and some you can sell to Chinese restaurants
(look thats an old standing joke , so no one get bent out of shape) In china they do eat cat and dog

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If you want a quick and easy way to replenish your supplies after the catastrophe the quickest way to do that is to make an appearance on The Price is Right. If you proclaim you spay and neuter your pets you have a better chance of getting chosen( I have inside information on that but cannot reveal my sources)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tcgs

China has put clamp on the buying due to over production.
This was on purpose. This is their MOMENT TO BUY!

Soon, prices will skyrocet, and you will sell again! (DONT)

I fear our DOLLAR WILL FAIL in the next two months.(NOW)

I've lost faith in our GOV.

Were going to have QE3, crazy INFLATION, and another wave of FORECLOSURES

ITS TOAST> HOUSE OF CARDS COMING DOWN>

OPTIONS? Deal in real money ie gold silver and other precious metals.

ITS ALL CHINA WILL ACCEPT TO PAY OUR DEBT CAUSE OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH SH*T AFTER THE THIRD ROUND OF PRINTING OUT OF THIN AIR!

HENCE, THE GOV WILL DEMAND ALL YOUR GOLD AND SILVER!

AHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

AT LEAST WERE ALL IN THE COMMODITIES MARKET AND CAN COME BY THESE METALS EASIER. USE THIS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE AND SURVIVE THE UPCOMING CRASH!

---

This seems to have once again turned into a survivalist conversation with a number of really smart tough guys thinking they have it all figured out as to who is going to survive.
I may have read too many books or seen too many movies on apocalyptic scenarios but the bottom line is that we scrappers don't control squat at any level in the grand scheme of things.
Life breaks down to some very simple facts.
#1 We need to breath, you can last just a few minutes without oxygen.
#2 We need water, you can live for a few days without H20.
#3 We need food, you can live a few weeks give or take without food.
So whether it is natural or political/economic catastrophe that occurs no amount of wealth or armament stored is going to save an individual for very long.
It has been proven throughout history that there is no defense large or small that can't be breached.
You can have all the gold,silver, guns and ammo and food etc etc that you have room for, but if you live in a standard structure and there are people who want what you have eventually you will lose it.
As far as speculation long term and high volume goes I think it's a waste of time and money when time is far more precious than anything , I am not religious nor am I very actively political.(I have voted every election since I was of legal age, for what it's worth)
I am more philosophical than is necessary most of the time.
My lifestyle is not like most of yours other than scrapping being part of my living and my "hoarding" so to speak is for the most part no different than anyone here.
My conclusion is that the best things I get out of life is doing anything I can to help someone who truly needs it more than me.
That and creating useful things out of junk that will be my greatest legacy..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by re-cycler

this seems to have once again turned into a survivalist conversation with a number of really smart tough guys thinking they have it all figured out as to who is going to survive.
I may have read too many books or seen too many movies on apocalyptic scenarios but the bottom line is that we scrappers don't control squat at any level in the grand scheme of things.
Life breaks down to some very simple facts.
#1 we need to breath, you can last just a few minutes without oxygen.
#2 we need water, you can live for a few days without h20.
#3 we need food, you can live a few weeks give or take without food.
So whether it is natural or political/economic catastrophe that occurs no amount of wealth or armament stored is going to save an individual for very long.
It has been proven throughout history that there is no defense large or small that can't be breached.
You can have all the gold,silver, guns and ammo and food etc etc that you have room for, but if you live in a standard structure and there are people who want what you have eventually you will lose it.
As far as speculation long term and high volume goes i think it's a waste of time and money when time is far more precious than anything , i am not religious nor am i very actively political.(i have voted every election since i was of legal age, for what it's worth)
i am more philosophical than is necessary most of the time.
My lifestyle is not like most of yours other than scrapping being part of my living and my "hoarding" so to speak is for the most part no different than anyone here.
My conclusion is that the best things i get out of life is doing anything i can to help someone who truly needs it more than me.
That and creating useful things out of junk that will be my greatest legacy..........

---

well said re-cycler well said

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auminer

I don't always believe posts purporting foresight into the macroeconomic future of our nation, but when I do, they're not posts rife with misspellings & grammatical errors. ;)

Look, I've said it time and time and time again: no-one, and I mean NO-ONE knows what tomorrow will bring. There are more likely scenarios and there are less likely scenarios, but NO scenario is a foregone conclusion. If you'd told me 4 years ago that the Dow would be over 15000 right now I would have laughed in your face. If you'd told me that market returns in Bamajelly's first term would rival those of Clinton's administrations I would have looked into having you committed. Yet both happened, however unlikely they were. The market could crash tomorrow, and we could be on the cusp of a global fiscal meltdown the likes of which has never been seen..... or four years from now we could be posting, "If you'd told me four years ago that the Dow was going to be 23000 right now, I'd have laughed in your face."

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I was off by a couple of thousand... but as I recall, I was being facetiously optimistic in that post.

The economy always goes up and down. Yes there will be a huge crash. Eventually. Maybe in one year, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 30 years, maybe 50 years. Nobody knows EXACTLY when or how bad. The trick is to ride the wave as it rises. Cash out your profit little by little before the wave crashes. And after that wave crashes, buy, buy, buy.

The future is uncertain and the end is always near...

The long term picture looks bleak for humanity with automation taking over most jobs. Can you or what you do be replaced by a robot? Nobody is talking about this out here they have two stores with no checkouts you just pick stuff up and walk out and it cost a billion dollars for the first two stores.

In 1870, half of U.S. workers were in agriculture. Today’s figure is 2 percent. True, but how about horses? Back in 1900, we had 21 million working horses. By 1960, it was 3 million. Today? Too few to count.

Are we going the way of the horse? And what about the deep economic question that today’s CEO masters of the universe aren’t asking: Who will buy the goods and services their companies produce if everyone is out of work or, at least, out of good work?

I asked this question in a recent co-authored paper (”Robots Are Us”) posted at kotlikoff.net/research. My three fellow co-authors and I modeled robots as smarter versions of us. In our paper, we showed that robots’ development will make the economy boom as their creators reap large rewards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Libertytow

if we had our youth excited to buy starter homes that were affordable that would get $$$ flowing back into a already stagnant realestate system thus moving the economy forward

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Buy a home? Not unless prices fall drastically. Or unless employers feel like actually paying us more. Once the oil fields went under i couldn't even afford to live in some crappy rv I had parked in some crappy rv park. Most of the jobs I was able to get were only around $10 an hour even after having spent 3 years in the Army. Meanwhile we would have meetings in the beginning of the day where the boss would tell us the numbers game. While the company was claiming record profits in the millions, their production force was making $8-$10 an hour no matter how much work we did. And they were still trying to find ways to not pay us as much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScrapmanIndustries

Buy a home? Not unless prices fall drastically. Or unless employers feel like actually paying us more. Once the oil fields went under i couldn't even afford to live in some crappy rv I had parked in some crappy rv park. Most of the jobs I was able to get were only around $10 an hour even after having spent 3 years in the Army. Meanwhile we would have meetings in the beginning of the day where the boss would tell us the numbers game. While the company was claiming record profits in the millions, their production force was making $8-$10 an hour no matter how much work we did. And they were still trying to find ways to not pay us as much.

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Unsolicited old guy advise. Managing your money, Go on line and find Dave Ramsey's web site. If you follow his advise you will love yourself for it, so will your family.

Ready yourself for the job market. Find a job you can see yourself doing that you will make a good living at and get yourself qualified.

Not all good paying jobs require a college education. My friend is a front load garbage truck driver and gets paid in the 70k area. Like most jobs its hard work and takes lots of practice to get good at it. The really big negative is you have to go to work at O Dark Thirty.

Locally we have a community college that has some great training in HVac and facilities maintenance and the costs are covered by the Pell Grant program. The lowest medical lab tech should get paid more than you are talking about it.

We live in a Capitalist economic system, thank god and the founders, which allows you and I freedoms that others don't have. I can buy my goods and services from whom ever I want. I can take my labor and work for who ever I want.

You will find that as the economy gets better wages go up, why because qualified employees are valuable. If there are less jobs then the pay is lower and benefits are less.

I'll say one other thing that I have advised to my own grown children(they ignored me): Consider Tx, Tn or some other growth state. For some this is scary to do the big move but for me its always been just another challenge.

Never rely on others to make your life better. Enough with the sermon. 73 Mike

No! Don't come to Texas!!! The weather sucks, the women are ugly, and there's no jobs here!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by auminer

No! Don't come to Texas!!! The weather sucks, the women are ugly, and there's no jobs here!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yea, my friend in TN was not happy I let the secret out of the bag with TN. His wife is from Illinois and can't get over the fact that there is no state income tax and the roads are better than back home in Illinois. 73, Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miked

His wife is from Illinois and can't get over the fact that there is no state income tax and the roads are better than back home in Illinois.

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We jokenly call Illinois "the land of 10,000 toll booths" every time I have to drive through the state ....

I actually tried staying in Tx after living in Ft. Hood for 3 years. I don't really mind the weather too much. After awhile you just get used to being hot. I was in Tn for a bit too but only with Western Express so I didnt really get to experience the better parts of town. Only the slums of Nashville. If I was able to support myself financially over the long term I'd go back to Texas. No doubt about it.

Many have posted that we do not know what tomorrow will bring. Tomorrow will bring the ability to make your own decisions, control your lifestyle, and decide how to survive short of getting into trouble with the law. A nuclear holocaust, environmental disaster, or a fall of financial markets may limit our choices, but we still have control of our lives, it is called freedom. Think of how many do not have this luxury.

As far as the best place to live, I believe it is the United States. It does not matter the state, it is the place you can survive and be happy. I live in two different states that do not charge income tax and border a state that does not have a sales tax. As far as the OP's post I am stock piling all of non ferrous material because I have enough space and can survive without selling it. If we end up using the barter system in the future it will be valuable in my retirement. My belief is at the least it will keep up with inflation. This is just an opinion on the subject.