Game plan

So here's my idea and id like any feedback.

So I have my grandmas garage which is about 750 sq feet and I'm planning to fill it to the door with shred. Since prices are so low right now Ill hold onto it until they rise back up, or until I can't fit anymore. Than I'll get a 40yd dumpster from my yard dropped off and fill it up. My questions are how would I avoid theft? Do your yards have lids on the dumpsters they deliver? And how much weight should I expect a full 40yarder of normal everyday scrap such as appliances, bikes, weigh machines, duct work, random piping, chairs, and so on. Thanks a lot.

First, where is your grandmother (In general?) Is she in a populated area, or at the end of a long, private gravel road?

See how much the yard will charge for a container? Depending on your area, if the price is high, you may be better off to just buy a cheap trailer for the job. The price for a container out here is $100. If your grandmother's on a private farm, I'd be inclined to pile it up out back before I'd pay $100 for a container. If she's in town though, that won't work, obviously.

See what the yard would charge for a container? That's step #1.

Yep $100 for a container is like 5000 lbs of shred at $.02 lb. Price of the container will make or break this deal.

The last time I sold a stockpile of shred, the local yard dropped off a roll-off container and picked it up for free. They gave me three days to load it for this service. Since most yards are needing the metal, I would certainly ask for considerations. Good Luck

First off its free if I can fill it. Also I have no doubt it will be stolen if I leave an open ended container out there. And she is in a suburb and I can only use the garage not the yard, but it's plenty of space. And dumpster would be placed on driveway. And for sure won't give it for .02. Lowest id take is .08, so it'll be a waiting game.

I don't like this idea at all. I think you could better utilize the place storing better things than Shred. (Computers, Aluminum) Pretty much anything other than steel.

I would concentrate on what is the best material you can put in that garage to hold on too.

The density of the load will dictate the weight. I have seen 40 yrd. dumpster hold 10 - 15 tons of # 1 tubing, angle iron, and beams. I have seen them hold roughly four tons of household items.

The height of such a container (8 ft.) limits loading by hand unless it has a drop gate. Make sure if you go this route, you get one with a gate. Not all tubs have gates. Still at one point or another you will have to shut the gate and then everything has to be thrown over the top.

Next sort your metal to maximize the load. Putting all flat metal on the bottom will allow more in the load. In Omaha you can sort your shred and unprepared in the container to get more money. Most yards allow at least two different types of metal in the same container. Just make sure you are there when they weigh it and unload it.

As far as theft out of the container, it should not be a problem as long as it does not contain non ferrous. It will be too much work for shred.

If the yard will provide the container for free, great deal. If not you might want to consider your truck and purchasing a trailer as mentioned above. Good Luck.

It the container is free then it does not matter the price of steel even if it was $.01 a pound, you only have to load it and they take it away and pay you! This is a good idea!

^ He has a point. If the container is free. You can't lose.

Definitely. Some of the fee for us is due to the "We're in Wyoming" factor. The yard is 50 miles away.

If the container's free, I'd do it. You won't lose anything there. If they charge a fair amount (Like out here), I wouldn't. I can buy a pickup bed trailer for $200 that will haul 1 ton. I can take as long as I want to load it, and I can sell it if I desire.

Of course, I have plenty of rural space. Your results may vary.

If you're sitting on prices to quadruple, you'll need a storage plan for the interim. That day may be a ways off.

I think you need to think about liability issues as well living in town as such. Even if the the neighbors (and the city) allow you to have a dumpster (how long can you claim you're doing remodeling in the house?) in the driveway, how about kids or some adult idiot getting hurt on your scrap steel pile? Sure gma has libility insurance on the house but will her company pay out when they find out its her grandkid's scrap pile that caused somebody to get hurt? You have almost no control over how an insurance company will interpt things once the process is started. My kid got his forearm borke in the freakish dodge ball accident at church. Once my health inusrance company herad the word "accident" it hired another company (a subsidary of one of the largest health insurance companies in the country--never know by the name) to investigate. They must have decided it was small potatoes and didn't sue the church for the coverage of the broken arm but if they would have, we would have had no way to stop them from coming after the church.

For a few hundred bucks or even a grand if you don't have what matador has suggested (a rural place where people really have to try to get to instead of just stepping off the sidewalk) or a much larger lockable building in town, I wouldn't have unsecured dumpster for shred in a residential area. Just my thoughts...

P.S. A person can still be sued for injury from a scrap pile on a rural property or in a locked garage or building but the chances of it happening are probably much less than something sitting in a town driveway...

Home insurance will probably be revoked if metal is in driveway. I live somewhat rural 5 acres cant see my yard. I had over 6 tons stored behind my barn in a pile. My insurance came to the house and saw it. They gave me 1 week to clean it up or else home insurance would be revoked. I would say your plan is not viable and a good one. To many chances and risks for little reward. Just drive it in as you get it. I have many trailers I haul with one then load another one when full i drive it to the yard.

Just camp out at her house while the dumpsters there to make sure nobody decides to walk off with your stuff.

Another thought, I don't think this is a good idea. Aside from the insurance stuff, it seems like a pretty big liability to keep a garage full to the brim with scrap metal. I know I wouldn't want to do that because if any of it shifts, it would go through the wall if it was loose shred. Also, I know appliances are pretty nasty sometimes with bugs and such. I wouldn't want that stuff around my grandparents if I don't have to and risk infesting their house with bugs. What I would do is just haul it in as I get it if the yard is relatively close, and use the garage to store higher value stuf.

Thats just me. You do you bro.

your plan is flawed for one basic reason. steel prices are not down, this is the new norm! $10+/ 100 was a bubble, it has burst! it will be YEARS before you see such high prices again.

Look at your localities high price in Oct-Nov 2014, divide that by 2. expect that to be your new normal price come summer and for it to stay there for years

unless you can horde steel for 20 years, sell it as you get it

V/r HT1

C. Dream- The state of MN makes your pond have a number??? I knew they were big into regulating and cataloging things but they have all the ponds in the state in a database??

I can't purchase a trailer until I am 17 claim my parents... Can't put in her yard. People stole her drainage grate so they will rob a ferrous dumpster. Possibly just fill the garage up and spend a week hauling it in with my truck and possibly a borrowed trailer? Either way it's not worth it to haul it to the yard now.

Personally I use most of my storage space for resell-able things that are more valuable then scrap steel and since you have expressed interest in selling things it's something you may want to consider when allocating space.

It is going to take a while for steel prices to come back to levels we have seen if at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HT1

your plan is flawed for one basic reason. steel prices are not down, this is the new norm! $10+/ 100 was a bubble, it has burst! it will be YEARS before you see such high prices again.

Look at your localities high price in Oct-Nov 2014, divide that by 2. expect that to be your new normal price come summer and for it to stay there for years

unless you can horde steel for 20 years, sell it as you get it

V/r HT1

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What do you base this on?
We like facts. To me steel has never been "high" priced. Iam already seeing price increase.
So if you got some solid info please share.

I have nothing else to store there. If I have stuff to store I would leave it open but it's basically an empty area. And your idea on prices is warped and not backed by anything. As of now I feel it must go up a little. And driving directly to the yard with my truck full costs about $15 in gas, plus gas of picking the metal up so probably $30 expenses for 800lbs of steel which is valued at about $40 at the moment so it doesn't line up to keep taking loads, stockpiling is my best bet.

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Originally Posted by DevinThaScrapper

I can't purchase a trailer until I am 17 claim my parents... Can't put in her yard. People stole her drainage grate so they will rob a ferrous dumpster. Possibly just fill the garage up and spend a week hauling it in with my truck and possibly a borrowed trailer? Either way it's not worth it to haul it to the yard now.

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Yes you can buy a trailer before 17 just not a truck. Plus most trailers you don't even have to worry about registering so age won't matter. Sounds like your trying to grow but don't have capabilities. I suggest doing what you can for the time being then restart growth when your 18 and can do contracts and be independent. Even if your plan to store in the garage does go through it won't make you much money.

Think of it as the reverse of what you have seen gas prices do...when the price of oil goes down eventually we saw relief at the pump but it took a while...some little blip happens like higher barrel price or a refinery goes off line and they have no problem cranking up the price as quick as they can. Steel market takes a crap (less demand) and prices drop like a rock...it is going to take some time to see some significant relief at the steel pump like it or not.

Yes some have seen a slight increase in steel price and hopefully it will continue but in order for me to get back to where I was less then a year ago my price is going to have to jump over 150% and I just don't see that happening in the next 6 months to a year. My Buyer from the yard I use calls me about once a month to keep me updated on prices so that is what I'm basing this post on...take it for what it's worth.

And the next truck you buy Devin, do yourself a favor and get one with an 8 ft bed and leave the 6 footers for the guys that get trucks to drive and not actually use them for work.

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Originally Posted by junkfreak

What do you base this on?
We like facts. To me steel has never been "high" priced. Iam already seeing price increase.
So if you got some solid info please share.

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Read the last two issues of scrap magazine.

and yes we will/are seeing a small increase because the Chinese new year ended
increasing the exports, domestic markets have to match. But that maybe offset by Obama vetoing Keystone pipeline.

Threat of war will not have a great effect on the steel market, as most modern weapons are aluminum and silicon(missiles) the US army has more tanks then crews and have begged congress to stop buying M1s. shipbuilding just is not on any ones mind at all as the US clearly has the most capable Navy in the world In short there is no reason for the steel market to go up... So it wont, unless someone sees something on the future others have missed expect Steel to stay about 1/2 october 2014s price

You can rent Uhaul trailers at 16. I know that for a fact. Maybe you could rent one for the day and double your payload.

There's always a way to buy something. But, not knowing the circumstances, I won't make a judgement.

A trailer could be registered to someone else. My F150 that I bought at 16 is registered to my father still. Of course, we get along. If that's not the case here, you may not want to do that.

I refuse to rent equipment, though. The last time we looked at renting a car, I bought a Buick instead. Three years later, I still own that car and love it! The way I see it, a Uhaul trailer will cost about $50 (At least- they always want to force "extra" days, it seems). Save a little, and own something.

Owning is always better than renting for this kind of stuff.

C. Dream- The number on that piece probably related to the soil they claimed to have mapped it to. The USDA's Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) which used to be the Soil Conservation Service has soil maps for most of the U.S. (Alaska is pretty light) at various scales but its sample based, obviously they couldn't have taken cores and such every whatever measurement you want to give it distance. So your wet spot may actually be that type of soil or they think they know enough characteristics to think it is. Still lots of interpretation involved. But the USDA doesn't have any regulatory enforcement unless you're signed up for one of their programs.

But the individual states can regulate as much as they feel like unless and until someone takes them to court and wins. South Dakota is pretty light on regulation but from what I've heard about MN they have lots of rule writers on the payroll. I know reading their trapping regs (which they don't allow non-residents to do unless that person owns land in the state) a guy just about needs a 30 foot tape measure in his trapping kit (certain distance for this, another distance for that). Lots of bureaucrats sitting around conference tables writing rules...

I guess if you got rid of them by just moving your junkers into the woods a bit and they haven't been back, you're probably doing good. I wonder how many Twin City burbs have laws against dumpster prowling???

Devin- Sorry for hijacking your thread

Devin,

I think your title says it all; it is really the answer to your own question...Reevalute your situation.

I will on comment with a recomendation as I had/have a similar ongoing situation. I use a 20 yard trailer to haul junk/store scrap. My problem is actually opposite of yours. Instead of people stealing; they try to dispose of things into my trailer. This is fine and good when its metal but more times than not, its boxes of old stuff, old tvs, furniture, general garbage, things of no value. I have a rolling tarp and locks on the trailer but sometimes people still huck stuff on top of the tarp anyways. I know have my tarp chained and 99% of the time would be morons don't mess around because it looks too hard to mess with.

Here is what i would do if I was you... You can try a tarp with bike chains but tarps can be cut. I cannot see thieves not making a bunch of noise raiding your metal dumpster but I digress... If you really want to stop them; save your steel sheet peices and drill holes and run a chain through across the top of the top or use things like chain link fencing or anything that takes up space- flatten down duct work, run chains through the pcs on top securly and lock them together or to the sides of the container. Unlock the locks when it is ready to be picked up.

All else fails chain everything together and make em work for it.

If you cannot catch em...outwit em.

Russell