Idiot competitor

I need opinions on this issue.

A clown-and for this guy that is being polite, opened a so called used appliance store in the basement of a local long time business.

Being that I pick up old appliances and sell them to a used appliance store 40 miles north of where I live, I thought I'd deal with a local guy instead.

I phoned him and introduced myself, told him what I do and told him I prefer to support a local business (I didn't tell him who I currently sell to).

He tells me he won't buy from a scrapper.

I said ok thanks for taking my call and good luck with your new business.

A couple days later my "free appliance recycling" ad on Craigslist expired so I renewed it.

He sends me a nasty email all capital letters berating for advertising in the appliance section (he has his ads under for sale by owner not for sale by business).

I sent him an email back stating that I have been advertising in that section for 6 years and I will continue to do so.

I also mentioned that he should NOT advertise in the for sale by owner as this is misleading.

I also mentioned that as he is a new business, it's not very smart to pick fights with people as I WILL be telling people around the town I WAS BORN IN 48 years ago what he is like to deal with.

He re posts his ads every day and he has now resorted to copying my ads word for word and inserts HIS phone number in the ads.

Also every time I re post my ad, he immediately re posts his ad above mine.

I am starting to get REALLY pissed off by this moron and I am considering confronting him in his store about his behavior.

I AM NOT in any way going to threaten him as I don't roll like that.

What do you folks think would be the best way to deal with him?

Ignore him and move on

I'd wait it out. In the mean time, depending on how you're set up, a legalese "Cease and Desist" may help. But, if this is how he runs business, I don't think the storm will last for long....

have your wife and or close friend go in and try to sell to him and have them ask more than you would get at the other place after the transaction has been made have them leave him one of your business cards. get a lot of friends to do so

The negativity your both going to generate will in the end benefit the brick and mortar dude who has established his permanency with the basement shop which I'm assuming is zoned commercial. In addition to being better established than you are currently, I'm guessing he provides repairs and service service as well that of sales.

Squabbling over craigslist listings who wrote what is juvenile on both your parts, I would abandon CL entirely then go to work on a constructive advertising campaign. print flyers and business cards to hand out.

Flyers can be put under wiper blades save on fuel and leg work go to the shopping malls, and any other places where people and vehicles gather.

Wear a goofy hat that stands out and becomes your personal trademark, any time I run into a biker wearing colours I may not know the dudes name but his colours speak volumes about the dude..

And this is why trademarks work, It's a well known fact in the advertising world that people have the attention span of a gnat you want to get your message across quickly - keep the content on your business card minimal were depending on the goofy hat trademark to leave a lasting impression.

Good ;luck.

Went back and read your starting post again when I discovered you made a rather informal introduction over the telephone, Was there any particular reason you choose the telephone over a face to face.

Any stranger cold calling me on the phone would have received the same reception from me as your competitor gave you.

Below is my goofy hat,you have to admit it leaves a lasting impression.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...psixvpyfto.jpg
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In some jurisdictions, flyer-bombing may be illegal. If so, you've pretty much just confessed at the scene of the crime- a few hundred times. Check that first ;)

Also, do you have an area trade show? There is a huge indoor garage sale annually in our town- get a booth, and make a professional-looking display. It'll benefit you a lot.

Signs on your truck are worth it. Magnetic ones are cheap and removable.

If he's doing this in a place that isn't zoned commercially, stand back and grab the popcorn. He won't last too long....

you CAN put copyright on all your text...and if he copies it, get a cease and desist sent to him on a lawyer letterhead. If that doesn't work, sue him in small claims.....sorry I can be a prick when people pick a fight. There are more than one way to skin that cat...wonder if he has his business license, is registered with the state (all public things you can look up).

I would also take the advice from others to broaden your advertising avenues...CL really SUCKS most of the time. Use FB yard sale groups, freecycle groups, partner with schools for pickups and any number of other strategies...the above stuff is stuff I would let my lawyer remind him of if he REALLY starts messing with me and my business...it is part of doing business and you have to do it sometimes. Really he is just being a DI%^...do the things I mentioned and take a chunk of his business...hurts more in the pocket. :)

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

you CAN put copyright on all your text...and if he copies it, get a cease and desist sent to him on a lawyer letterhead. If that doesn't work, sue him in small claims.

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I just did a quick search on copyrights. It appears that your copyright has to be registered before you can take any legal action. Sure, you can get a lawyer to send a letter but there might not be a whole lot they can do. In fact, I couldn't find anything that connects copyrights to advertising.

Might be a good idea to put on some decent clothes and go meet the guy face to face. Be pleasant and kind. Like they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. (Not that I actually want to catch any flies.)

Other than that, sometimes it's best to just drop the fight and go about your business the best you can. It'll pass.

I would not repost on CL for a few weeks, and change your ad. Go in to this guys shop, feel him out before you introduce yourself, if you haven't already met him. There's no point in getting into a pissing match. This guy has a brick and mortar store, which is overhead, so he will always one up you. You have to be smarter than him, his actions won't change if the situation does not change.

A wise man once said if you argue with a fool , it's hard to tell who the fool is. I wouldn't worry about it. He'll be out of business in a few months.

I have a friend who is very successful in the appliance repair business(washers and dryers ONLY). Since you have been selling used appliances you have the knowledge to do repairs or can learn it quickly.

My friend works mobile only out of a very nice pick up truck. He has several heavy duty totes in the bed which are all secured with a locked SS cable. In these totes he carries nearly every part he needs and almost never has to return later for a replacement part. He does not share his financials but for all appearances he is doing very well, his wife does not work outside the house and he has a special needs son.

I did a google search for "washer repair" and this guy(my friend)came up #4 after Sears #1 and two other paid ads. So he is #1 on google here in my area. I don't know how you get to number one on google but others on the forum could help you there.

If I was physically able this is one of the businesses I would be looking at. You have all the practice appliances you need to get the education and learn the parts supply side of it.

You may want to take this as a great opportunity to make a change in your direction.

73, Mike

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Originally Posted by billygoat

I just did a quick search on copyrights. It appears that your copyright has to be registered before you can take any legal action. Sure, you can get a lawyer to send a letter but there might not be a whole lot they can do. In fact, I couldn't find anything that connects copyrights to advertising.

Might be a good idea to put on some decent clothes and go meet the guy face to face. Be pleasant and kind. Like they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. (Not that I actually want to catch any flies.)

Other than that, sometimes it's best to just drop the fight and go about your business the best you can. It'll pass.

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Actually you CAN do a simple DCMA takedown notice by the poorman's copywright (ie just putting that the text it is copyrighted, etc). Usually that is enough to scare people off. I have only had to send a DCMA once...someone was displaying a logo they they said they made for me...which was NOT true. I sent it to their ISP since I could not find a way to send directly to the owner (they didn't list anything at whois). Let's just say it was down within 24 hours....otherwise the hosting isp ha to shut off their site. Now not quite the same with CL, but I still think they would pay attention to a DCMA.

Anyways, plenty of other ways to handle it as myself and others have noted. People are pricks, sometimes you have to choose to play the game differently because you understand the rules better than they do...far too easy to hurt someones pocket. Oh and Karms...she a B%^&h when she comes around in most cases.

I once found a Dyson Vacuum someone had cut the cord, I called some Vac repair places they wanted $100 to replace the cord, I asked them if they would want to buy it for parts. They did not want to deal with a person who scraps as well...

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Originally Posted by hobo finds

I once found a Dyson Vacuum someone had cut the cord, I called some Vac repair places they wanted $100 to replace the cord, I asked them if they would want to buy it for parts. They did not want to deal with a person who scraps as well...

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Check ebay for prices of used parts on that model. If prices warrant it put on any cord and test it out then sell the parts yourself. There is profit to made in the used parts market.

74, Mike

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Originally Posted by yungwizkid

A wise man once said if you argue with a fool , it's hard to tell who the fool is. I wouldn't worry about it. He'll be out of business in a few months.

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Best advince anyone can give anyone but hard to put into practice when tempers flare and egos clash.

Op I have to ask because no one else did: are you loosing business with his ad copying? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. Either way it's going to be a waiting game before he eventually folds as people know who's who usually. I found Facebook groups is where it's at anyway - the base is real time and will usually get back to you right quick.

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Originally Posted by miked

I have a friend who is very successful in the appliance repair business(washers and dryers ONLY). Since you have been selling used appliances you have the knowledge to do repairs or can learn it quickly.

My friend works mobile only out of a very nice pick up truck. He has several heavy duty totes in the bed which are all secured with a locked SS cable. In these totes he carries nearly every part he needs and almost never has to return later for a replacement part. He does not share his financials but for all appearances he is doing very well, his wife does not work outside the house and he has a special needs son.

I did a google search for "washer repair" and this guy(my friend)came up #4 after Sears #1 and two other paid ads. So he is #1 on google here in my area. I don't know how you get to number one on google but others on the forum could help you there.

If I was physically able this is one of the businesses I would be looking at. You have all the practice appliances you need to get the education and learn the parts supply side of it.

You may want to take this as a great opportunity to make a change in your direction.

73, Mike

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Appliance repair is a great business to be the hourly rates are good and best of all you are paid travel time to the job - service call.

My service call fee was $30.00 if the repair took less than half an hour I only billed for the service call.

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

you CAN put copyright on all your text...and if he copies it, get a cease and desist sent to him on a lawyer letterhead. If that doesn't work, sue him in small claims

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I purposely didn't address this comment because it contained an ambiguous statement. If you are talking about having your attorney send a cease and desist letter, that's a good idea. I figured that's what you meant, so I didn't address that part of your comment. But it can also be taken as a suggestion to copy your lawyer's letterhead and draft your own letter on it. That can get someone into a lot of hot water.

As for suing for monetary damages in small claims court, I would definitely contact an attorney before doing so. Monetary damages for loss of business due to a copyright breach needs to be documented and proven, and for most of us it's a difficult thing to do.

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Originally Posted by webuyselltradestuff

Actually you CAN do a simple DCMA takedown notice by the poorman's copywright (ie just putting that the text it is copyrighted, etc). Usually that is enough to scare people off. I have only had to send a DCMA once...someone was displaying a logo they they said they made for me...which was NOT true. I sent it to their ISP since I could not find a way to send directly to the owner (they didn't list anything at whois). Let's just say it was down within 24 hours....otherwise the hosting isp ha to shut off their site. Now not quite the same with CL, but I still think they would pay attention to a DCMA.

Anyways, plenty of other ways to handle it as myself and others have noted. People are pricks, sometimes you have to choose to play the game differently because you understand the rules better than they do...far too easy to hurt someones pocket. Oh and Karms...she a B%^&h when she comes around in most cases.

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I had a similar, but different situation a few years ago. I had to deal with a competitor who used unfair and misleading statements on their website, which is also illegal. I sent a "friendly" email to them asking them to remove or modify those statements. Nothing happened. So I contacted and hired an attorney who specialized in that area. I don't want to go into any more detail than that, but suffice to say that you can't expect a letter from an attorney to change everything for the better. Your attorney should also point out any further legal remedies that are available and how much it would cost to pursue them, including the filing costs.

Also, I have experienced someone copying my Craigslist ads word-for-word and posting them on other advertising sites. One of those ads was placed on a site run out of China, believe it or not. I tried to get it taken down but nothing happened. It's still happens from time to time. I have recently found three of my ads placed on other sites, word for word. I chose to do nothing because they left my website information intact.

In addition, recently someone posted an ad on Craigslist claiming I stole their "stuff" and that I am not to be trusted. I chose to respond to that ad and post a rebuttal rather than contact an attorney. While I'm not ruling out taking legal action in the future, hopefully the action I took was sufficient. Again, I don't want to give any more information away because I can't be sure this issue is over.

I want to make sure it is understood that in no way am I trying to hijack this thread. I'm not looking for any further advice. I just want the OP to know that he's not the only one in this boat. Just remember that if you do decide to take action, stop and contact an attorney first.

Thanks for the advice all! I have copies of the emails he sent me as well as copies of my ads that he copied. I was wondering if contacting his landlords in person and show them what he has been doing will help? Their business has been in operation for over 40 years and having this ape working out of their basement can/will hurt their business too.

No. It's not a burden to place on the landlord. It's not his area of responsibility either. Like I said, contact an attorney if you want to pursue this any further. Trying to play games and getting involved in battles can result in doing things that you might regret later. Keep a cool head and do the right thing.

Agreed- you don't know what the terms of his lease are. If it forbids business like this, he won't be in business very long anyways!

I'd lawyer up too if you want to pursue him

Sounds like karma gonna take care of this one all on its own.

Couple things stood out right away. Used appliance store in a basement? Have fun with those stairs

I have to agree with Cummins- I hated moving computers into a basement. Getting a washing machine down there once is a struggle. For a business, that's about the last place I'd put an appliance shop!

When does he have time to run his business if he is spending all his free time stalking your CL ad's? lol, I say you have no worries for long!

As others stated get a lawyer.Going to meet him will not turn out well.Because you view him as the enemy already stay away from him.

if any thing post your craigslists adds at irregular times from normal make him chase you more and do more work on his part out posting you .

I also think a confrontation is a bad idea, both for you and them. Too many ways it can be spun to make you look like the evil one. Personally, I would continue the Craig's List ad, with the knowledge that it will likely be less productive than in the past. I would also expand your ads into Facebook. If you "don't do Facebook", then start. There are a lot of local groups and people go there all the time looking for advice on who to call. It is a great free advertising medium. The only caveat there is to be respectful of the people and the group rules. Beyond that, fliers and cards work well but do be aware that in some locations, as has been mentioned, there are laws against placing them on cars. Lots of businesses will let you place them on bulletin boards or windows and some will even let you leave a stack.

I am very possessive of my vehicles and I do not like strangers touching them so I would never put ads under windshield wipers for that same reason.

Alloy2- he did not yet have a store when I called him.

I invited him to my storage yard so he could see what I was doing.

I even offered free coffee and donuts if he wanted to stop by.

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Originally Posted by bullion

Alloy2- he did not yet have a store when I called him.

I invited him to my storage yard so he could see what I was doing.

I even offered free coffee and donuts if he wanted to stop by.

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Coffee and doughnuts always win me over. :)).

Having read this thread and given it my consideration the following is my theory about the "competitor". He is not exactly in direct completion with you.

More importantly he will likely treat his customers with the same disregard and disrespect he has treated you. If he hires employees he will also not treat them well. In the end I would expect him to fail in a short time unless his rich Daddy is backing him(I've seen this happen).

I think you have gotten great advise, there may well be good reasons not to follow it but my opinion supports the majority of the advise: Forget any direct action with/against this guy, Refine and/or redirect your business.

You will prosper and benefit not expending energy on this guy. 73, Mike

OP; you call the basement guy a competitor but it sounds like you are a supplier to your current 40 mile customer. A "wholesaler", so to speak. And you offered to supply the basement guy with inventory also? Inventory that he could re-sell at a profit? Why would he turn down the opportunity? Do you compete with him for retail sales? Or are you competing with him for the available used appliances? I'm having a hard time getting my head around this. What am I missing here?

Focus on making your own business more efficient, concentrate on your existing customer base, increase your ability to service new customers, expand into those new markets, invest some of the new profits back into your company, add equipment, tooling, training and certifications to your company. Take care of your company and business, in time you will see this so called "competition" as just another event that you dealt with in growing your business.

I see competitors a little different, they make me stronger and if they are at my level, we become trade associates with common goals and interest. In reality, in business you need to be competitive, requiring "fair" competition and making us all competitors. Sorry, I think you have to re-think the "basement" competitor, but I would spend the energy on your own business.

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Originally Posted by bullion

I need opinions on this issue.

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http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/...psk56vbpoc.png

Alloy2- what relevance does a picture of my ex sister in law have to do with my posting?

Diesel1-I have been doing this for 6 years including advertising on cl.

I am competing with him for the supply of appliances-the big difference is I collect them and re sell to a store out of town-I do not repair, resell to the public or pay people for the appliances.

This sock puppet came along a month and a half ago, sent me a nasty email and this stuff has been going on since.

He apparently thinks he's the new sheriff in town.

There are a few others in town in the appliance business that DON'T act like barn apes.

I just fail to see why someone that is new thinks they can push people around and act like this.

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Originally Posted by billygoat

Might be a good idea to put on some decent clothes and go meet the guy face to face. Be pleasant and kind. Like they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. (Not that I actually want to catch any flies.)

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Not to HiJack the subject but Apple Cider Vinegar works wonders at catching those pesky little Fruit Flies. Just a little in the bottom of a small glass will catch a good many of those little pests the first night.

Now. Back to the Subject of Ruthless Business Practices.

Go back to jail, martha!

And take your "helpful hints" with you!

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Originally Posted by bullion

Go back to jail, martha!

And take your "helpful hints" with you!

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It's a long ways to the bottom my friend there's still hope you'll find your station in life.

Now the idiot competitor turned foolishness up a notch. He posted on craigslist that "They" (posing as a private customer) gave me a stove which I posted the next day for sale on CL without a phone number-called me a rodeo clown too. I NEVER sell appliances on craigslist-they go into my back yard and when I get 10 or more the appliance store 30 miles north of me picks them up from my house. I do occasionally give away working units to needy people but I never sell them due to liability issues.

I know its the competitor because the map on their posting is the same place their store is at. Not too smart on their part. I fired off a warning email reply that my attorney was reviewing a hard copy I made of their post. I advised them to remove the posting immediately and I also notified craigslist about what they did. Any advise what I should do next?

Definitely not from Martha Stewart: "wrestling with a pig is futile because you're going to get dirty and the pig likes it." ANY engagement with that guy is going to get you dirty. The guy feels threatened by you and your business. And you feel threatened by him. You could try to talk to him about co-existing in the same town with one business complementing the other, but you need to lose the antagonistic attitude first. As others have suggested: best to take the high road and find ways to mind your own business. Customers should be able to figure out who the real "clown" is.