Do you use one to cut and clean tough metal? And if so, how much did it cost for the initial set up?
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Do you use one to cut and clean tough metal? And if so, how much did it cost for the initial set up?
I only light the torch when I have to
You can get a nice carry along setup for $330.00 from Harbor freight
Portable Welding Torch Kit w/ Oxygen & Acetylene Tanks
Check your local Craigs list >> There are several for sale there
chicago for sale "cutting torch" - craigslist
Plasma cutter would most likely be a better choice for cutting heavy melting steel. Thats what im currently looking into for the future.
I wouldn't get one unless I NEEDED one. In the mean time a sawsall will do a lot and you can get them with batteries. Same can be said for angle grinders. Mike
We use a chop saw for trimming the catalytic converters we purchase.
Welcome to SMF from the Dakota's. You might want to do a search in the upper right hand corner of this page for other threads on the subject. On the bottom of each thread you will find additional threads.
I use a torch all the time for combines, tractors, water tanks, power plants etc. A couple of things to consider if you are going to be doing a lot of cutting: Get K tanks right away, they do not cost much more to fill than the small ones and last a lot longer. Consider using propane instead of acetylene. It is a much cheaper fuel and burns just as well. Buy the best torch you can afford, it will pay dividends in the long run. With that being said I use cordless sawzaws, angle grinders, and demo saws on smaller metal. It is not worth the effort to drag a torch out when just doing small jobs.
This is a thread that may offer another perspective on torches and help to decide the best tool for you. http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/tools...ing-torch.html
I just bought one to use for a flat bed trailer (tractor trailer). Spent $230 on the kit. It is a little small and came with a 0 tip. Probably should have had a 1 or 2. Brought it at central tractor. It is a Hobart medium duty.
If you have never used a torch before, you are in for quite the learning curve. I burned thru the large tanks and still don't have a good feel for it.
Speaking of torches, this may be a fluke, but it has happened twice to me and I've also heard of an explosion that was fatal for a man. Goes like this: When cutting into a water tank or even a pipe, there are certain gases accumulated through oxidation, rust and other forces that are explosive. The fatal accident was with a torch on a large watertank. It was reported that there was never anything but water in that tank, but it took the man's life. As for myself, I had used a cutoff saw in my shop to cut down a water hydrant. The first one I did not know the history of, but assumed it was always underground and used for water only. The last one (this week) was removed from my farm where it had been hooked into a waterline for the last 25 years. These are the frostfree water hydrants......one brand is the Iowa hydrant but there are other brands. Anyhow, when the cutoff saw got through the outer core of the pipe, there was a mini-explosion; more like a puff which flashed but enough to scare a person. It was definitely a reaction of fire/spark vs forces within the pipe. Has anyone else experienced this ?
I know exactly what you are talking about yunkman. It was a couple of weeks ago when I read about it happening here in NZ.
What happened was a company was emptying a water pipeline, quite a long one & about 6 foot dia.
A worker was doing a inspection in part of the pipe while another worker was cutting it, quite a distance away.
The cutting torch ignited some flammable gases and the person doing the inspection was killed by the pressure blast.
What happened was this. When they 'dewatered' the pipeline, they did not open the top end of the pipeline to free air, the air was entering thru the outlet end.
Now this had caused a suction/vacuum in the pipe, this vacuum sucked in air from around the pipe in several places. Underground.
Unfortuanly underground is where flammable methane and such gases come from, the vacuum sucked some of these gases that were around the pipe, into the pipe and made a explosive gas mixture with the oxygen/air that entered thru the open end.
The gas cutting ignited it and sent a pressure blast up the pipe that hit the inspector and killed her.
More info here, I cannot find the actual inquiry report.
Danger under the streets: The Onehunga blast
The other thing to remember is that oxygen will react with oil/grease etc, explosively. The stream of pure oxygen from the cutting tip is enough to do it.
And tanks, even after they are washed out, will retain fuel etc in seams, a little bit of heat and it evaporates and there's now a explosive mixture.
If washing out a tank, use detergent in the water.
I figured id share a story. My uncle worked on Caterpillar equipment for a big yard in California. He would tell us stories about having to repair fuel tanks on the underside of these earth movers and scrapers. I guess these tanks were huge, like 100 gallons or something. Instead of draining the tanks they would fill them to the brim with diesel fuel and weld on them to fill pin holes and cracks. I believe they were using a big MIG with an inert gas blanket tip or something.
Crazy, imagine welding on a tank that’s FULL of gas! The whole idea was to eliminate the O2 so things don’t go boom.
Amazing what you can do safely when you know what you are doing.
ps. Please don't try this. My uncle had over 40 years of welding experience and these were old man stories around the campfire. Be safe
It may not be your fault. I set up a medium duty rig quite awhile back and never really got the hang of it. It's fine for brazing,gas welding,and cutting granite but it doesn't seem to cut steel very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomasdev
Maybe it's asking a monkey to do a gorilla sized job ? :-/
Many years ago in a very large scrap yard while heading to the unloading area fro my heavy melt noticed the yard foreman was about to blow out an injector line on one of the cranes using pure oxygen from the cutting torch.Quote:
Originally Posted by eesakiwi
I said hey Bob you mind waiting until I leave the yard before blow that injector line, when he asked me why, I told him he shouild read the warning on the oxyen guages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceball
Interesting story.
Would work with diesel but not with gasoline.
There is difference between a welding tip and cutting tip.Might have been the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappah
Also the set up is different for cutting and welding.
Other things to consider cutting tips are sized,Quote:
Originally Posted by junkfreak
Most popular brands of cutting torches desighned for acylene will accept propane tips, they do work but not as efficient as a torch specically made to burn natural or propane gas these torches have special mixing heads and these produce a much hotter flame.
What we refer to as cutting metal with a torch is much more than than, once the hot flame heats the metal red hot you squeeze the trigger shooting a stream of pure oxygen onto the hot zone. What happens now is that the oxygen actally burns the metal so what you get from burning lets say a six inch thich piece of metal is slag with perhaps a bit of molten metal created by the massive ampount of heat caused from burning.
When I sut metal thicker than six inches thick would weave the stream of oxygen off centre 1/8" side to side cut in such a way that the slag exiting the cut falls downward this way the heat retained in the slag pre heats the metal underneath.
When ever doing a largw job would order a liquid oxygen, comes in a big thermos is the equivalant of 18 large bottles of oxygen at a fraction of the price. The only downside is you have to use the bottle daily for hours at a time. The liquid oxygen requires refridgeration by using the bottle drawing off the contents refridgerates the contents otherwise the bottle will bleed off oxygen when not in use.
I used a torch made by Harris, burned propane.
Metal Thickness Tip Size Cutting Oxygen Pressure*** PSIG 1/8" 000 20-25 1/4" 00 20-25 3/8" 0 25-30
I like Harris tips... So easy to clean.
Adding to what Alloy2 said about the Oxygen doing the cutting.
Dad had to cut thru a peice of Steel 1 inch thick by 6 inch wide.
He knew there was not enough Acetylene left to do the job.
So he pre heated it with a Propane gas torch, normally used for the soldering bolt etc.
Then started off with the Acetylene and Oxy, started the cut and turned then acetylene off and just cut thru it with the Oxygen only...
I was quite surprised and he told me how it works, and why he leaves the rust there where the cuts going to be, the rust reacts with the heat/Oxygen, creating more heat to keep the cut going.
If you grind the rust off the metal, you have a harder time keeping the cut going.
And quick trick on clean metal is to turn the Oxy down and use the smokey Acetylene flame to deposit a layer of soot onto the metal after you have given it a bit of a preheat.
Doing a search from SMF about gas cutting a few years ago, I found there's actually a setup that adds Iron oxide powder to the gas lines so it comes out of the gas cutting tip when cutting. For real thick metal.
At our local scrapyard they have to cut up steel rods 8 inch's dia, about 15 feet long, into 3 foot lengths, about a 20 foot shipping container full at a time. They get pretty good at it too.
I tend to store my tips in Marvel Mystery Oil when they're not in use. They tend not to plug up as much and are easier to clean that way.
Still not sure about the rig itself. I got a heating tip specially for that make & model. It doesn't work all that well. It just seems like there's a limitation on heat output with a medium duty rig somewhere. Kinda goes along with what Patriot said about buying the best setup that you can afford. I'm thankful for the tool that i do have, but years later wish that i had bought something a little bit better.
That's a new one on me, storing cutting tips in Marvel Oil. I hope that other forum members don't take your advice as Oil and Oxygen go BOOM. They don't mix well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappah
You may have noticed that your cutting torch is connected to the supply hose's, the red line nut is left hand thread and the green oxygen supply is right hand thread. The fittings are standard SAE and will accept any replacment cutting or brazing torch.
Those combitantion cutting and brazing torches where you just change the brazing tip for the cutting attachment don't work that well get a stand alone cutting torch, and buy one suited to the gas your using ie; acytlen or propane. The stand alone cutting torch can be had in any lenght, I tried one that was 3 ft long and did not like it at all went back my my 18 inch Harris.
Yeah .. definitely clean the tips of ANY oil & clogs before you put them back into use. I usually blow them out with compressed air but a rinse with acetone would work too.
That's a good point on replacing just the cutting torch. I appreciate the advise ... it's not something i had thought of. That might just do the trick ! :)
Maybe after that a propane rig ? The yearly tank lease is 94.00$ A tank of Oxygen and a tank of Acetylene was something like another 87.00$ at the nearby depot where we can exchange empty ones for full ones the last time i checked. It's an expensive tool to own but it's one of those things where if you don't have the tool you can't do the job. Propane would cost a lot less to run and still do the job for most things.
I know this doesn't answer your question but I use a plasma cutter. I started out with a junk Everlast. After 2 episodes of dealing with warranty work I got rid of it and went with a Hypertherm. I am really impressed/happy with it.
I am also set up to go mobile with a generator and compressor. Generator does okay. Compressor really lacks. Wishing I had gone with a bigger unit. Shop compressor does fine, it's a Puma 60 gallon upright. Had never heard of Puma, but it was cheap enough I thought why not give it a try. I've been pretty happy with this also.
On my propane rig just used a regulator from a BBQ without a guage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappah
Some of you might not be aware that your not supposed to use an acetylene tank laying on its side.
Acetylene gas is mixed in liquid acetone for safe storage and usage. Acetone in acetylene cylinders helps stabilize the gas making it non-reactive within the cylinder. In this process, acetylene is dissolved in liquid acetone under high pressure. The cylinder is then filled with porous material like firebrick. This keeps the acetylene in liquid form making it easier to transport the cylinders.
Advantages of Acetoning Acetylene Gas
Acetoning of acetylene when storing it in a cylinder is vital to the safe and effective storage and functioning of acetylene. It is also vital for the safe transportation of acetylene cylinders. Here are a few reasons why acetylene should be stored in liquid acetone:
- It helps stabilize the acetylene keeping it from reacting with oxygen.
- Since pure acetylene cannot be pressurized without causing an explosion, it is mixed in acetone to reduce the pressure.
- Acetone has the capabilities to dissolve large amounts of acetylene. For example, one liter of acetone can dissolve 250 liters of acetylene. This is possible at 10 atmospheres of pressure. Hence, it proves to be a relatively economical method.
Need for Porous Material When Acetoning Acetylene Cylinders
The porous material used in the cylinder serves the following purposes:
- Ensuring there is no free space within the cylinder.
- Helps in cooling the internal atmosphere in case of thermal decomposition.
- Formation of high pressure pockets within the cylinder is a major cause for concern of acetylene cylinder manufacturers, suppliers, and user. However, the porous material helps in relieving any pressure that builds up over time.
Application Example of Importance of Acetoning Acetylene Gas
The fact that acetylene can remain stable when being transported helps in completion of many tasks. For example, welding work can be performed at the higher stories of buildings even without a strong electrical connection. At higher altitudes, pressure decreases, this could prove to be a problem when dealing with acetylene, as acetylene in such conditions can cause explosions. This is where incorporation of porous material and proper acetoning of acetylene cylinders proves to be useful. Both these features help in reducing the pressure that builds up within the acetylene cylinders.
Importance of Safe Handling of Acetylene Cylinders
Dissolving acetylene in acetone is an important process that helps in safe handling of acetylene cylinders. However, extreme caution should still be exercised when handling and storing acetylene cylinders. When using this equipment, it is important to maintain the alignment of the cylinders. Acetylene will remove acetone easier in the horizontal position than when it is used in the vertical position. Hence, the cylinder should be stored accordingly.
Acetylene cylinders should be acetoned properly. At the same time, the porous material used to stabilize the gas should be chosen carefully. If both these processes are not performed well, the gas could remain unstable causing explosions. Hence, acetoning and introduction of porous material in acetylene cylinders is of prime importance for safe storage and handling.
Using a propane torch for cutting, choose the proper tip size for the metal your cutting, to light the tirch turn on the fuel ( propane ) when the torch is lit adjust the gas flow until the flame just begins to leave the tip now open the oxygen valve oin the torch just enough that the flame makes contact with the tip.
Now you'll see the cones form at the base of the flame, should sound like tearing paper.
Acetylene, light the fuel then turn it up enough os that the black smoke dissisipates, your ready to give the torch oxygen your ready to cut, once the cut has begun angle your torch towards the direction of the cut, if your cutting heavy metal the degree od angle will be much less than that for light guage metals.
I used a number 4 tip the centre hole large enough to fit a pencil lead, using this tip a skilled burner can cut upwards of six inch thick metal, round shafting is the most difficult to get started on a cut.
Lugging around s generator and compressor to operate a plasma you're definatly serious about scrapping.Quote:
Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper
I had the Cut 70 plasma which imediatly developed a problem, trying to get help from the Chinese vedor - no English me no Cantonese was fruitless. Figured the thing was a write off at this point saw no harm in having a peek inside, what I found is a set of contact points than make the high frequencey one of the wires leading to the contacts was arcing to the cabinet, rerouting the wire fixed the problem.
Would I buy aniother, in a heart beat.
The 70 amp plasma would cut 3/4" thich steel all day long without so much as warming up. Best part is that the consumables are far cheaper than your Hypertherm.
A couple of things I notice other people doing with Oxy/Acetylene plants, but I don't like seeing is.....
Opening the taps out fully, the valve of the actual gas bottle.
Open it out 1/2 a turn or enough to do the job.
If something happens, bad or going bad... You want to be able to close those taps in one movement.
What's happened a couple of times is something falling onto the hoses and cutting them...
Having shifted the Acetylene tank, by vehicle or just around the workshop. They have not left it to 'Sit' for long enough.
What happens is the liquid Acetone gets up into the Acetylene gas expansion part of the gas bottles neck, its full of small metal balls squashed into a lump, its a physical 'flashback arrestor' and allows the gas to boil off from the Acetone in a controlled way.
Now what happens is the actual Acetone liquid rises up into the neck and gets up thru the regulator and into the hoses.
You can tell its happening because you will see little 'spits' in the flame. Little white spits streaking out with the flame.
This is the Acetone liquid.
What the real danger is... Is that the level of Acetone will drop in the bottle and there will be a acetone 'void' under the effective flashback arrestor in the bottle.
Acetylene gas will explode at over 15PSI, it needs a little Oxygen to do it, but without Acetone there, there's a chance of Oxygen being in that void.
Which brings me to the next caution.
Don't run a full bottle of Oxygen at full pressure on a near empty Acetylene bottle....
Oxygen can flow back up the hoses into the Acetylene tank IF there's enough Oxygen pressure AND here's not enough Acetylene pressure AND there's a void in the Acetylene tank....
You want to see scarey? Watch the paint blister off the side of a Acetylene bottle because of the heat caused by a fire inside the bottle.....
Double scarey is when its happening to BOTH bottles at the same time. I have seen the results once... Both bottles had been dumped into a nearby water trough.
Personally, I'd probably ring the fire alarm and run like hell.....
That happened to somebody else.
What has happened to me is a fire inside the actual rubber gas hose.
You want to be able to shut the tanks off quickly when that happens.
Also, open the gas bottle valve s-l-o-w-l-y. That's slowly, but slower.
Some people do not let the pressure off the gauges when shutting down the gas plant.
When you open it quickly, the blast of pressure hits the little Brass gas bag inside the gauge and deforms it, sometimes skipping a few teeth on the needle too and from then on you never know what the actual reading on the gauge is.
eesakiwi everything with the exception of the acetylene tank valve you said is correct, the acetylene cylinder tank valve muct be fully opened.
Flashback preventers are small devices attached at the torch end of the hose's these prevent flame from returining back to the tanks.
Guys using woodgas to fuel a vehicle, HHO, or Methane for heating or cooking use home made flame arresters stuffed with stainless steel or bronze wool.
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