Protection Against Those Charged with Protecting Us

Well Friday turned out to be one hell of a crappy day......On the way to the shop I received a call from a man who identified himself as a state conservation officer, saying that he wanted to speak with me. No problem.

Well I get to the shop at the same time as my partner Chris and the officer is there. He walks up and says that he wants to speak to us seperately. So I went back to his truck with him first.

I am thinking that some nut case complained about something to do with the business but I was confused about why they would send a conservation officer.

Well when we got to talking he started asking about Chris and most of the questions revolved around the previous weekend. We took a long weekend off from the shop. It was Chris's father's birthday and he recently lost his father to cancer so he took off to a small camping spot along the river to get away for a few days and do some fishing.

To make a long story short the officer had found a large amount of electronics dumped near the river. Ok, so that is nothing out of the ordinary, but as luck would have it when Chris was there he dropped one of our business cards out of his truck and did not realize it.

So this officer decides that he has caught someone who dumps electronics by the river. Of course my argument was "Why would Chris dump electronics? That is how we make our money."

Well the officer said he figures that Chris was taking electronics from the shop to make money on the side. Still this did not jive because dumping them on the river bank would not make him any money.

Nonetheless, this guy had already decided that Chris was guilty. Then he got to the bad part. He said that if Chris did not agree to accept a ticket for $250 then he was going to have to charge him with a D felony and to announce to the newspapers that my company was involved in a littering case. So Chris and I both when into protection mode.

I had a case of the red a$$ to say the least and I did get quite bent out of shape with this guy and it was a surprise that I did not get myself arrested in the process. But was not going to let this guy soil the name of my company over something like this. I even agreed to send both of my employees to the location to clean up the electronics. I figured why not? They would make us more money. But the officer refused.

In the end Chris took the ticket despite the fact that he did not do anything wrong with the exception of letting the business card fall out of his truck. This was, once again, one of the situations where the officer had made up his mind well before he got any of the facts.

To top it all off the guy had the nerve to ask if I would give him a couple of cables that we had in the shop for his computer!!!!:mad:

Well, of all the ______!! That's just WRONG !! I wish you could have picked up those cables and herded him out with them !! How's the foot ??

That sucks. I learned a long time ago anyone in a "authority" position is not, nor will ever be your friend.

Why didn't Chris grab them up and haul them to the shop for processing?

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Originally Posted by IdahoScrapper

That sucks. I learned a long time ago anyone in a "authority" position is not, nor will ever be your friend.

Why didn't Chris grab them up and haul them to the shop for processing?

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The electronics were dumped after he left....That was the crazy part....The guy said that there were motherboards dumped at the site....I was like, that is just plain stupid! It makes no sense for him or anyone else in the company to dump the stuff.....

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Originally Posted by Dumpster Dee

Well, of all the ______!! That's just WRONG !! I wish you could have picked up those cables and herded him out with them !! How's the foot ??

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Believe me, I wanted to tell him what to do with the cables so bad!!!! Sadly the foot hurts pretty bad right now.....I see the doc for the surgery later this month....They said I got the earliest possible appointment. I guess there are a lot of people getting foot surgery this year.

Sometimes when it rains, it pours. That applies to bad luck as well as good, Keep your head up buddy.

Bad luck is right....Had a difficult time keeping my temper in check with this one.....

just another example of regulators run amuck in todays Amerika. A few years ago I had $100,000 + in equipment stolen by a temp employee, he was caught, the equipment impounded in creatview FL, as evidence. 3 months later it was auctioned of with no notice to me even though I had been in constant contact with the police dept. A brilliant part time Detective with the department decided the equipment was part of an insurence scam on my part, even though I had no insurence on any of it. the end result ? well you ever try to sue a police department or city.

Amen to that Olddude.....This guy was new to the conservation force...Told me that he had only been with the department for a year. Already he is trying to make his bones. I just got off the phone with our local conservation officer and he said it does not surprise him at all the way that it was handled. He told me that normally they have no way of knowing who dumped stuff and because Chris just happened to have the bad luck to drop a business card that this new guy saw an opening and he probably knew that I would do just about anything to protect the business. I am still seeing red over this.

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Originally Posted by ComputerScrapper

To top it all off the guy had the nerve to ask if I would give him a couple of cables that we had in the shop for his computer!!!!:mad:

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Officer, even though you are a pr***, I am in business to make money, so yes you can...that will be $65.

I smell BS, iwould ask for a jury trial,and request the local papers attend,furthermore i would ask that his superiors attend.I think this guy is a lazy so and so,that has forgotten that he is a PUBLIC SERVANT,JOB WELL DONE!!!! Good luck CS.

Wow, WTF, I would have ended up in jail if I was in your shoes! Crazy.

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Originally Posted by Kris Kringle

Computer Shopper Dude Just think of all the people you give a Business card to if they would drop it near the scene of a crime.

With that Guys Tude I think I would of Told him to Hold on and went and got a Tape Recorder And told him Lets start this conversation over Again. If It goes as you said it sounds Like Extortion. Or at the Least Blackmail. No Way IN HADE I Would of Agreed to Plead Guilty to something I Didn't Do. And truth be Told 95% of the people you purchase stuff from Don't care one Iota What you do with the stuff. {They Care About What You Pay them For Their Stuff}

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I agree with this, and just thought about the same thing myself.

I give out business cards to people like it is crazy, but they always send referrals to me. What if someone goes and robs a bank, and goes to pull something out of his pants, and drops it. FBI, Swat, everyone else will be at my front door.

Unless someone physically saw Chris there, that guy didn't have any evidence but a card which is circumstantial.

I would go or call the police, and explain to them what happened, and see what they suggest to you.

I woulda called the police and told them he was trying to blackmail me....... then called my lawyer....... then Fox news....... then whoever is in charge of the DNR!. What a douche!

Your foot probably hurts because you've been stomping around in a tangent!! Not to mention your blood pressure !! You gotta calm down and think this thing through. Do you want to purSUE (hehe) it ?? Then just calmly go to the police or a lawyer or a reporter (I don't know which would be the best avenue....somebody else might) and explain what happened. What I would do is start with a free legal service and see what they advise. If you choose not to pursue it then you have to let it go for the sake of your health......And you can't function as well in your business if your mind keeps going back to this. As olddude wouls say...just my .02 !

Well we talked to a police officer about the whole issue. While he agrees that it sucks big time he also said that he doubts any local judge or DA would consider what the officer did to be wrong. He said exactly what I figured.....The DNR is hardly ever able to catch anyone dumping and they usually find very little evidence and when they found our card near a dump site they took the opportunity to try and pin it on someone.

His suggestion, like many said above, would be to retain an attorney (I keep one on retainer) and then start writing to the newspapers. I was a writer by trade before turning to e-waste so that will not be difficult. Best case scenario they will drop the ticket

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Originally Posted by Dumpster Dee

Your foot probably hurts because you've been stomping around in a tangent!! Not to mention your blood pressure !! You gotta calm down and think this thing through. Do you want to purSUE (hehe) it ?? Then just calmly go to the police or a lawyer or a reporter (I don't know which would be the best avenue....somebody else might) and explain what happened. What I would do is start with a free legal service and see what they advise. If you choose not to pursue it then you have to let it go for the sake of your health......And you can't function as well in your business if your mind keeps going back to this. As olddude wouls say...just my .02 !

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Right as always Dee....You and my wife would get along well....She said the exact same thing....I am trying to remain calm about the situation. I just don't like the idea of someone messing with what I worked hard to build. But as always your advice is right on target, time for me to calm down a bit :-)

Just from this point out, till it is all over, is keep an accurate, full record of anything and everything. You will definitely tick them off, and they will seek revenge, so stop it before it even starts.

Why in the world did you capitulate to this prick? As soon as you found out what the deal was you should have said "Whoa! I think that before we go any further I want to have an attorney present."

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Originally Posted by olddude

just another example of regulators run amuck in todays Amerika. A few years ago I had $100,000 + in equipment stolen by a temp employee, he was caught, the equipment impounded in creatview FL, as evidence. 3 months later it was auctioned of with no notice to me even though I had been in constant contact with the police dept. A brilliant part time Detective with the department decided the equipment was part of an insurence scam on my part, even though I had no insurence on any of it. the end result ? well you ever try to sue a police department or city.

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I have actually. It takes a while and it helps if you have THICK skin.

Hate to say it, but pay the $250 and go on. A lawyer will cost much more, and defending a D Felony will cost thousands. Simply write it off as a cost of doing business and go on. And your friends are right, almost every judge in Indiana will believe the cop above any of us. I have seen cops lie in court many times, and the judged know and don't care. The criminal justice system assumes we are guilty. It sucks, but keeping your head down is the best option unless you have big bucks to spend on a lawyer.

I for one am glad that we have people protecting the environment. That being said though, I have found that scrappers are more likely to be the ones protecting it then the government. After all, we make money doing this. As a new business owner I know first hand how hard the government makes it for anyone to be in business for themselves. It is almost like they all want us to live in a welfare society.

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Originally Posted by ComputerScrapper

Well Friday turned out to be one hell of a crappy day......On the way to the shop I received a call from a man who identified himself as a state conservation officer, saying that he wanted to speak with me. No problem.

Well I get to the shop at the same time as my partner Chris and the officer is there. He walks up and says that he wants to speak to us seperately. So I went back to his truck with him first.

I am thinking that some nut case complained about something to do with the business but I was confused about why they would send a conservation officer.

Well when we got to talking he started asking about Chris and most of the questions revolved around the previous weekend. We took a long weekend off from the shop. It was Chris's father's birthday and he recently lost his father to cancer so he took off to a small camping spot along the river to get away for a few days and do some fishing.

To make a long story short the officer had found a large amount of electronics dumped near the river. Ok, so that is nothing out of the ordinary, but as luck would have it when Chris was there he dropped one of our business cards out of his truck and did not realize it.

So this officer decides that he has caught someone who dumps electronics by the river. Of course my argument was "Why would Chris dump electronics? That is how we make our money."

Well the officer said he figures that Chris was taking electronics from the shop to make money on the side. Still this did not jive because dumping them on the river bank would not make him any money.

Nonetheless, this guy had already decided that Chris was guilty. Then he got to the bad part. He said that if Chris did not agree to accept a ticket for $250 then he was going to have to charge him with a D felony and to announce to the newspapers that my company was involved in a littering case. So Chris and I both when into protection mode.

I had a case of the red a$$ to say the least and I did get quite bent out of shape with this guy and it was a surprise that I did not get myself arrested in the process. But was not going to let this guy soil the name of my company over something like this. I even agreed to send both of my employees to the location to clean up the electronics. I figured why not? They would make us more money. But the officer refused.

In the end Chris took the ticket despite the fact that he did not do anything wrong with the exception of letting the business card fall out of his truck. This was, once again, one of the situations where the officer had made up his mind well before he got any of the facts.

To top it all off the guy had the nerve to ask if I would give him a couple of cables that we had in the shop for his computer!!!!:mad:

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Unbelievable.

Business cards are to let out, drum up business. threating you with the news paper is blackmail. then the officer steps up to the plate asking for a bribe via the computer cables.

Have you heard of Ombudsman. Your other option is plead not guilty to the ticket maybe the public official will be a no show and the judge will toss the case.

If your partner is the guilty party he's an idiot, find a new partner.

Gustavus

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Originally Posted by gustavus

Unbelievable.

Business cards are to let out, drum up business. threating you with the news paper is blackmail. then the officer steps up to the plate asking for a bribe via the computer cables.

Have you heard of Ombudsman. Your other option is plead not guilty to the ticket maybe the public official will be a no show and the judge will toss the case.

If your partner is the guilty party he's an idiot, find a new partner.

Gustavus

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Spoke with my attorney this past week and he agreed that there was very little that could be done. It would be $500 minimum to fight the ticket with very little chance that we could win. Just wrote the check and moved on. We went to the location and found what the officer was talking about....The stuff had nothing to do with our business anyway. There were 2 DC power supplies that came off industrial equipment and a few household fans. No circuit boards, computers or monitors in sight.

But no, my partner was not the guilty party, he just had the bad luck of camping in the wrong area at the wrong time. Just a situation where a young conservation officer wanted to close a case and make himself look good. If that is what it takes to make him feel like a man then so be it.

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We went to the location and found what the officer was talking about....The stuff had nothing to do with our business anyway. There were 2 DC power supplies that came off industrial equipment and a few household fans. No circuit boards, computers or monitors in sight.

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If that d*mbass conservation officer noticed that "litter" and wrote you a ticket for it; he did not do his job by disposing of the "litter" instead of leaving it where it was. Shame on him,,,

this type of thing really pisses me off! this just like when I got a speeding ticket at 400 in the morning going to work and there are friggin crackheads at the park doing drugs!! I took the ticket and asked why he wasn't running those punks out of town , He just walked away

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Originally Posted by ComputerScrapper

Spoke with my attorney this past week and he agreed that there was very little that could be done. It would be $500 minimum to fight the ticket with very little chance that we could win. Just wrote the check and moved on. We went to the location and found what the officer was talking about....The stuff had nothing to do with our business anyway. There were 2 DC power supplies that came off industrial equipment and a few household fans. No circuit boards, computers or monitors in sight.

But no, my partner was not the guilty party, he just had the bad luck of camping in the wrong area at the wrong time. Just a situation where a young conservation officer wanted to close a case and make himself look good. If that is what it takes to make him feel like a man then so be it.

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Pleading guilty to an offense your not guilty of, WHY!

That was a dumb move, now you have a written offense on file, that will be used against you in future should you have another issue pop up.

Besides had you plead not guilty the crown would have had to lay out the evidence, the judge would have decided from this wither to take it for trial then you bring in the big guns, your lawyer..

Ahh well it was only money, next time it will be double. Glade it weren't mine.

Regards
Gustavus

I don't think the crown would have had much to do with it in Indianna.

Well the whole "dumb move" thing aside I decided that listening to my lawyer was probably the best bet. This is mainly because as an attorney who has practiced for about 25 years in Indiana has a pretty good idea of how things work in this state. Judges tend to ignore anything but what is said by the police which makes for a lot of losses despite a lack of evidence.

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Originally Posted by ComputerScrapper

Well the whole "dumb move" thing aside I decided that listening to my lawyer was probably the best bet. This is mainly because as an attorney who has practiced for about 25 years in Indiana has a pretty good idea of how things work in this state. Judges tend to ignore anything but what is said by the police which makes for a lot of losses despite a lack of evidence.

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Well man, sorry that happened too you and that there isn't any recourse for you. I do however admire your cool-headedness. Kudos.

Yeah I am trying to be levelheaded about the whole deal...Had a couple bad days just after it first happened but sometimes it is best to just to let things lay where they fall.