To report or not to report

I was asked by a guy to come and see about getting rid of 2 large piles of scrap from his yard.

There were 2 huge piles of scrap(piled by an excavator) probably 20 feet in diameter and about 20 feet high each.

I spent 2-1/2 hours with this guy listening to him prattle on about this and that(not scrap related just a bored old guy I guess)

So I tell him I will bring in an excavator and bins at my expense to get rid of the scrap(there were 2 complete pickups crushed in the piles as well).

NOW he shows me this spot about 20 feet in diameter where the grass is dead and he tells me there is batteries and other toxic stuff buried there-I said nothing when he told me this and just gave a blank stare.



The 2 piles of scrap and the toxic dump are at the top of a hill which runs downhill and into a creek bed.

NOW I heard nothing from him for several weeks-he was going to call me so I could arrange the machine and the bins.

I call him 3 weeks later and he says "my neighbour buried the piles with his excavator"

Burying scrap here I know is illegal and certainly burying toxic waste is as well.

My question/s are:

1. Why did he lead me on and then screw me like that?

2. Should I call the bylaw enforcement/DNR on this guy?

If I blow the whistle on him he will most certainly get jail time AND forfeit his property.

Being a nice guy, I hate making trouble and this is not sour grapes-I am genuinely concerned about the environmental impact as this creek runs downhill and drains into the ocean.

Any suggestions?

Lesson learned. Sometimes people just want a visit, but when you are in business, always try to close the deal. Either that, or get your therapist certification so you can send a bill for your time listening to them.

report him!

I'm not so sure that the penalties are actually that severe. Especially in Canada. He would likely get presented with what would amount to an expensive fine....paying to clean up the mess. Properly. Overseen by the DNR wonks. If he was lucky enough that the effluent plume of the bad stuff leaching out of his crap pile in the groundwater has not moved off the property, then he could clean it up himself by choosing the most competitive contractors to do the job. If the crap had started running off his property, then the gov't boys would step in and get the job done and he would lose any control of the cost to clean it up.

More to the point of reporting...I would think a gov't guy would see it as your word against his. And you have not seen anything being buried, but just were TOLD that it was buried. Would the gov't go through the expenses of going to a judge to get a search warrant, hiring a hoe to go out and dig to prove there was stuff there, and analysing what was found to see just how bad the whole mess truly is? For example, is there lots of groundwater in the area? Is it flowing quickly? Is the ground chemistry such that it would speed oxidation of the bad stuff so water can move it away? How much bad stuff is actually there? Was one motorcycle-sized battery buried or 100 large heavy equipment-sized batteries? Is the buried lead a bigger issue than buried steel? Finally, how busy is the local DNR? Do they have the equivalent of 20 Love Canals and a bunch of defunct steel mills and coal tar plants that they are handling? Then this item might be pretty small potatoes to them.

Is there a law in your jurisdiction that says you must report something that is suspected was done that is against the law?

All of these questions will colour the answer for this particular situation and the specific question (report or not?). For you, it comes down to your own moral compass.

But don't be surprised if nothing happens if a report is made.

Hope this helps,
Jon.

I'm guessing he took his friends excavator and "buried" it into a roll-off from the scrapyard ; )

I see it like this. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just cause the big corps do it, doesn't mean the little guy should also. That's like robbing your buddy cause the banks robbed everyone else back in 08'.

I'd ask straight up why he's burying it there, an if he realizes the damage he's doing to the ground, any water nearby, etc. If he was a jerk, got an attitude, or whatever for me asking, I'd politely point I was just curious his thinking, an coulda just told on him. lol. Then I'd think about taking it further, but I have a feeling it'd go like another poster said...nothing would be done.

Folks can't complain an cry about injustice, then turn a blind eye to the same injustice being done in their back yard. It's like politicians an drugs. They all say publicly their against it. Yet they get caught smoking pot, snorting cocaine, smoking crack..( looking at you Marion Barry and the idiot Mayor in Toronto.) etc.

Either way, at the end of the day, you gotta do what you feel is best. Simple as that. Some here are fine with it, others not so.

An Primo, I hear ya buddy, but you reminded me of an old saying..."Can't do the time, don't do the crime." Whether that crime is dumping crap you know is bad for the ground, selling drugs, shooting people, etc. If you can't handle the consequences...perhaps you shouldn't be doing any thing illegal? I don't see it as the little man vs big company..I see it as either way, your both doing some thing wrong.

Glad I live on a sandbar.

Sirscrapalot - Behind every great fortune lies a great crime. - Honore de Balzac

Primo, it's all good bud. I hear where your coming from. I can see your points, at the end of the day tho..I gotta call it as I see it.

Bear...it's that old saying tho man, three sides to every story. His side, their side, an the truth. I didn't get what you did from the OP's post. I think that's more of me applying the old saying then anything else tho. I didn't detect any venom, he didn't just vanish into the ether like some folks would when they saw your reply. Nor did he argue back with ya. So till I hear the third side.."The truth" I can only go by my take. Of course if it's like you said, then well..poo on him. Unless some one can get the other guy on here, it's all moot really anyway.

Then again I live on a sandbar. I don't have land here for people to bury stuff on. If they dump illegally they do it in the ocean. An if they get caught I don't want to be them. Coast guard ain't to keen on such things. They do it sound side, well..the folks who fish/crab for a living around these parts don't take kindly to such things.

Sirscrapalot - Is renaming the scrap room the "Sirscrapalot fan club bar & Grill" till the quotes return to the top of the site.

Bear, we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Sirscrapalot - Eh..no quote.

Originally Posted by Sirscrapalot

Bear, we'll have to just agree to disagree.

Huh? Do What?? I'm not done gripin yet! hahaha, but, maybe later(there's got to be a moral to the story somewhere ; )

Gripe away my friend. I have no dog in this contest and I always enjoy a good rant.

Sirscrapalot - No quotes!

I actually don't have one here either SSA, nor would I recommend attempting to have a man prosecuted by the authorities for some dead grass because he felt jilted for not getting the mans scrap piles, nor would I believe from some dead grass there was actually enough there to prosecute(looked around a scrap yard lately? see any grass? what's the big deal with that? nothing!). The man owed him nothing, nor did he force him to hang around 2 and a half hours. As I said in my first post SSA, sour grapes is so totally obvious here I just don't see how you can miss it

Just curious here - what is the difference (from an environmental point of view) of the scrap being above ground or below ground? There's a bit less oxygen (so less oxidation), but I don't know of anything else difference-wise.

If the local gov't was on his back about a scrap pile, they will probably be aware of whether or not it was buried I would think.