Can you scrap pennies before 1974?I heard this on a news show awhile back.I think the copper in the newer pennies is lower?thx
New Guy
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Can you scrap pennies before 1974?I heard this on a news show awhile back.I think the copper in the newer pennies is lower?thx
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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You can't scrap any pennies legally.
Pennies prior to 1982 have a higher copper content, 95% copper 5% zinc. Pennies after 1982 went to an alloy that was 97% zinc.
Because it's not legal to melt pennies, many people hoard them waiting for Congress to change the laws. Maybe some people do melt them down but keep in mind they are not 100% copper. I don't think it's a bad idea to save copper pennies, but I certainly wouldn't buy pennies for more than face value (or even at face value to sort), but that's just me.
Last edited by Phantoms001; 03-11-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Check out you tube and enter copper pennies and you'll see what people are doing with pennies 1982 and older.
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
do you have a link to the law that verifies this statement? i've heard both sides to the story but don't know what site to find this info.Originally Posted by Phantoms001
i've heard many say it's illegal to change the value of currency. that makes perfect sense. if a penny is actually worth 2 cents melted then are we breaking any laws? idk, probably illegal but i have never read the law.
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...one-cent-coins
Prohibition on the Exportation, Melting, or Treatment of 5-Cent and One-Cent Coins
start your journey from this page then follow the links and sub-links further down the rabbit hole into the deepest darkest bowels of the government
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You would be better served buying copper ingots and having them refined. The smaller percentage of copper, the more other metals associated with the copper. So if you purchased 1 ton of copper ingots that were 99.9 fine, that would mean you might pay right around $7,000 (Copper spot is about $3.50 per lb currently) and end up with about 20 lbs of other metals, so long as you were requesting a full accountability. There are 14 ozt per lb (14 troy ounces per lb) that would mean there are 28 troy ounces of other metals. If just 5% of that were Gold, that would mean 1.4 ounces of gold, at today's current spot price that would equate to $2,212.00.
If you accumulate scrap copper and have it refined, depending on the copper and where it came from, you will make even more.
If you are able to contract with a mine, and are purchasing their unrefined copper ingots (around 90% copper 10% other metals) you are making even more.
Silver is very similar. This is part of the reason I primarily am focused on silver, although most of what I refine is still Gold and the Platinum group metals, it's silver I am more interested in purchasing to refine, because of all the other metals associated with it. And also because I just simply like silver the most.
Scott
Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 03-12-2013 at 01:09 AM. Reason: Corrected math
At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new. This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan
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On what scale does this become feasible? What I mean is, a ton of copper ingots may seem like a lot of copper, but for refining purposes is that even a large enough amount?
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
One ton (2000 lbs) of 99.9% pure copper would leave you with 2 lbs of other metals, not 20 lbs. So just divide the rest of your numbers by 10 to end up with the correct numbers.
I'm wondering though, realistically would there be any chance of the contaminating metals containing any gold at all, let alone 5% gold? I would think that the mine, or whoever you purchased this copper from, would make sure there was no gold being given away for free.
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Thanks for pointing out my bad math, I fixed it, I was thinking 1% for some reason.
This is what happens at a copper mine. They make their money by how much they are able to pull out of the ground, and how fast they are able to do so. They do not refine to high purity for several reasons. When electrolytically refining any metal it's the purity of the electrolytic solution that determines what the purity you are plating is. So if I want high purity silver for example, I have to pay attention to my electrolytic cells closely, to make sure there are not a lot of other contaminants in the solution because they will co-deposit with the silver. I also want a small percentage of copper in solution because it makes the silver crystals that plate out on the cathode, nice and fluffy which in turn makes it easy for them to be washed and dried, then melted. An electrolytic solution is only as pure as the material you are putting into it. So for an electrolytic cell that can process 700 ounces of silver per day, I am going to need about 300-400 ounces of pure silver dissolved in the electrolytic solution. As I process more and ore material, there are small amounts of impurities that end up being dissolved into solution as well, that start to plate out on the cathode. When this happens, I have to stop the cell, precipitate the remaining silver, put new acids into the cell, add the silver to dissolve, you get the picture. It's a pretty long process.
When a mine is operating, they don't have a lot of time to stop, and clean up their solutions. So they want their solutions to operate for as long as possible, thus their tolerance for impurities must be much higher. The next cart of ore is coming out of the mine waiting to be processed. It's at the electrolytic cell that a copper refining operation gets bottle necked.
So they operate under conditions that a refinery would never, and in the process create copper ingots that have a high impurity percentage compared with fine refined copper.
Then these ingots are shipped off to a copper refiner who has special electrolytic cells set up for just them. It's easier for the refinery to simply refine to industry standard, and pay out the mining company because the copper mining company needs operating capital, rather than trying to refine past what is industry acceptable, they just refine to industry standard and quit.
This i s common practice, the metal is refined to a point it can be sold as industry standard because the extra work involved in attempting to extract more values is just not worth the time, effort and energy at the time it's refined.
Scott
Last edited by NobleMetalWorks; 03-12-2013 at 02:31 AM.
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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The thing I like the most is people that hoard pennies in case of economic collapse. Unless they are saving the pennies to buy a nice Smith & Wesson or canned food I don't think pennies are going to have much value if everything falls apart. Pennies can't protect you from attacks by bandits/looters and you can't eat pennies. This has been proven over and over, even in recent times like the USSR collapse.
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Phantoms; you are right, if we have a total economic collapse and the value of the dallor goes to 0 like it did in Germany before WW2 then the penney wont have value ether. Even if copper values go up to 500.00oz what good would it do if your money has no value?
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
It's the exact same reasoning that ppl hoard gold and silver in case of a total collapse. The reasoning being that while paper money is worthless, pure metals will always have intrinsic value. Silver dollars are valuable because of the silver, not because it's a dollar. So, in the case of a collapse, and your example of $500 copper, that copper penny would theoretically be worth $2 and change. The tough part might be finding someone who values it the same way as the penny hoarder though. You never know though, if a collapse does occur like some people envision, and there's not enough gold and silver in circulation, people might turn to base metal currency. I doubt it myself.
And to clarify some word useage in this thread; if you're buying gold/silver to protect yourself in case of a currency collapse, that's not an investment. That's a hedge. An investment is when you buy it expecting the price to increase.
New Guy
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Thx ppl!!! I sure learn alot on this site
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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The problem I have with your scenario is that it really wouldn't matter if gold/silver/copper is worth 2.00 or 2000, if I had food, fuel, weapons, ammo, I'm not going to be interested in metal. I would want tangible things that I didn't have and needed in return.
In Greece’s On Going Financial Collapse Bartering Emerges In Greek Towns
People will barter for what they need because money will be worthless. Most people that scrap will not only have an inventory to barter, they will have some experience also. Like I posted before, you can't eat silver, gold can't protect you from looters, copper can't keep you warm. People will be more interested in necessities to live and be less concerned with starting to collect metals thinking one day the market will come back.
Metal Recycling Entrepreneur
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NobleMetalWorks, is it worth saving up the silver solder joins on copper tubing? I have saved up a few Kg
A while ago I saw at a scrapyard the ends of a boiler. It was about 2 1/2 feet in dia. It was copper with mulitudes of copper tubing. The area of silversolder was 2foot dia & about 1/4 inch thick.
It was going out as 'Copper domestic'. I wondered at the time what the silver content could have been. & what elese there was in the silver.
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