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How to tear down this sign?

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  1. #1
    PickerBenny started this thread.
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    Lightbulb How to tear down this sign?

    recently on my local cl, there is an ad to remove a big metal sign from one of my local dealerships and i'd like to get the job, but i have no idea how to remove it safely..



    anyone have any ideas? at least 20ft tall. its the sign all the way to the left in the image.


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  3. #2
    AuburnEwaste's Avatar
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    I would suggest moving along to the next job, for a few reasons. The first one is that you do not know how to take this down. You could seriously injure yourself or possibly others. Liability insurance would be a must for this job.

    The other reason is that this a-hole is trying to have his work done for free. Never, ever do jobs like this for free, your overhead would cost more than the metal is worth.

    Sorry if I sound harsh, but you are young and have a lot to learn. We were all in the same place at one point and learned our lesson.


    Edit: I assume they want it done free in exchange for the metal. If not I would still consider my other points.
    Last edited by AuburnEwaste; 08-04-2014 at 07:43 PM.


  4. #3
    hobo finds's Avatar
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    WTF owner should use sign!?!

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  6. #4
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    Another thing to consider is the proximity to power lines.

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  8. #5
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    Is the salvage worth it? Can you take the sign post, too? How tall is it from the base to the top of the post? Can you resell the whole sign and post for someone else to re-use?

    I would talk to someone with a small truck crane that can lift a ton or two. If he can get a sling around the signpost just above the center of balance you could undo the bolts at the base and he could lift it off the bolts and lay it down--on your waiting trailer (If the darn thing isn't too long). Make sure the guy has liability insurance--if something goes wrong and he drops it, you want to make sure there is insurance coverage.

    That should take less than an hour and usually these guys have some sort of minimum callout charge anyway. I had to load something heavy onto a trailer in another town and the 20 minute job cost me about $200 with a small crane.

    Take a close look at the bolts at the base--they are usually studs set in concrete--and make sure someone didn't gibble them up--or if there are studs at all. 'Cause if the bolts are buggered or the post is welded down you need to get a blue-nosed dragon to cut things apart which adds to the fun and time, and therefore, expenses.

    I'd guess you might have to charge a bit to take it down, even if you have a potential to resell it.

    Hope this helps,

    Jon.

    Edit: In the time it took me to write this several guys had a bunch of good suggestions, the most important one I missed is proximity to overhead powerlines. The crane guy would (Should) be watching out for this but there are always cowboys around. Also, there will be a wire going up to the sign that has power in it that needs to be shut off and disconnected.
    Last edited by sawmilleng; 08-04-2014 at 07:55 PM.

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    I agree with Auburn completely.

    For some reason I thought of this as my first option, not serious, but would maybe make a good episode on a tv show or something.

    Attach a cable to an anchor and throw into dumpster. Attach the other end of the cable to the sign. Garbage truck pulls over sign after compacting in anchor and driving away. Simple, right?

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  12. #7
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    Ummm .... some jobs just aren't worth doing. Too much liability.

    If things go sideways can you make good on the damage ?

    As previously mentioned: It's hard to guage the distance from the power lines but they're a factor in the mix.

    It's close to the road. What happens if a soccer mom with a minivan full of children has a chunk of lose metal come crashing through the windshield ? You would probably need the police to shut down the road for awhile to rule out that possibility.

    It's awfully close to that building. The value of the building, and the cars inside, has to be at least a quarter million dollars. Are you insured for that much ? You definitely want to get the people out of the building before you start work.

    You probably want to get all those cars in the parking lot moved out of your work area.

    Is it really worth all of the risk for what little you would get out of it ?

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  14. #8
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    Rent a man lift, take it down from the top to the bottom in manageable pieces.
    That's a $1500 job
    All others have great points power lines, power in the pole, and bolts on the bottom could all make this job a headache.
    And with super close proximity with 2 roads gonna need safety equipment for road/sidewalk hazard as well.
    There ain't nothing wrong with an honest days work. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.- Old Man

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  16. #9
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    Everyone has some great ideas on this. I agree with just about all of them, especially NHscrapman's estimate for the price of the job.

    That sign could be a huge liability if you don't do it right, but is very easy to do with the right equipment and precautions. As a demolition contractor I've literally done dozens of these in this type location and worse. It is absolutely not worth taking down for the scrap value. I don't think it will quite weigh 1000 lbs so you're looking at a hundred bucks if you cut it up.

    I would have to bring in my excavator ($500 mobilization including loading, moving, unloading, moving the truck to safe parking, do the job, then reloading and unloading back at home). Then at a good time (not rush hour), close the street working with the police. Secure the sign to the excavator bucket with a strap or chain, not just push it down because the thing can go anywhere no matter which way you're pushing.

    Take care not to damage the street or sidewalks. I might have to lay down a trail of tires to walk on and even wood blocks to get over the curb. Those excavators are heavy and can crush a curb into the ground.

    Then remove the nuts from the bolts with wrenches if they want to keep the bolts or my favorite, Jon's way (love the dragon). Make sure the power is off.

    Watching out for the power lines (a major caution), lay it down on a trailer instead of a building, car, etc. Then you still have to take it to the scrap yard or store it somewhere for resale.

    Costs Excavator $500 (probably close to the same if you hire a crane by the time they charge for moving, setting up and the time it takes securing the area while they are there)
    Labor $150 (two man crew at least, may need a truck driver too)
    Overhead $100 (varies from company to company but this is around the daily cost to keep the doors open on my Dad's business)
    Insurance $150 (just a guess actually, but it is expensive to keep liability and truck insurance is over $7000 a year)
    Permits $50 (the permit may cost or be free, but it's still a separate job for a different day)
    Misc $50 (upkeep on equipment, torch gas, supplies)
    Total $1000
    Profit $500 (we would love to get 30% profit on every job, but many are down to 10-15%)
    Total of bid $1500

    That is how I would have to bid it if it was an official bid. If this was out in the open, I could tie my winch to it and take it down with my Dodge in 15 minutes, cheap, but the city environment makes that very hard to do safely.
    Last edited by Pnutfarmer; 08-05-2014 at 10:45 AM.

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  18. #10
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    I wouldn't touch that with a 20 ft pole.

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  20. #11
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    i am well known for bringing down large things that everyone else refuses to do, or wants an arm and a leg to do....i am getting a bit more cautious after several near misses and several direct hits over the years.......anyhow in my opinion with those public streets and power lines not to mention the building all in such a tight area....id pass or else id charge them a very healthy amount.

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    Great thread with fantastic insights, valuable information, and knowledge laden. The perspectives in this thread will be valuable to me for many challenges. Thank you to all. This type of discussion is what SMF is all about in my opinion.

    A redneck option: Use tires as Pnutfarmer mentioned to protect the streets and sidewalk. Hook straps or cables to the top of the post. Anchor to two trucks 50 degrees from each other. The tow lines should be longer than the length of the pole. This will force the sign to fall away from the building and between the two trucks. Use a torch to cut the bolts, cutting the bolts closest to the building last and with tension on the tow lines. Timber. The sign could be resold instead of scrapped if the torch cuts are washed or feathered.

    Equipment needed:

    Permits and closing streets - Let dealership deal with this, they have more pull than an individual.
    Trucks or other anchor points
    ladder to attach tow lines - dealership probably has one.
    scrap tires - no cost, just make sure you can return them. The dealership might have them.
    Four tow straps - cost $ 50.00 ea. Once again the dealership might have them.
    Torch or wrenches - The base was probably painted after the sign was placed making it hard to use a wrench.
    Liability insurance - I would have the dealership provide the insurance and have this in writing. They may put you on their pay role for half a day to cover the work.

    $ 1,500 + sell sign for $ 200 = $ 1,700 for half days work. I think I would do it for $ 500 and the pole, if the dealership accepted liability. You could offer to be a consultant, charge $ 250 and the dealership provides all equipment and labor. The best strategy is to sell the sign and let the buyer remove it. Being a broker is much easier than being a laborer.

    Sorry about the rambling, but this is the thought process I use. Think of all options and pick the best.

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  24. #13
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    here is how taking down sign poles works. Keep in mind there are things to check into legally, each town is different. If it is within a 20' RADIUS of any power lines, you have to contact the power company and get their permission, they may even want to come out and sleeve the lines, which they WILL charge you for. as far as taking it down, you have 2 options. I saw someone else mention a lift, this is a BAD idea. That pole weighs a lot, and unless you are going to cut it down into 1' sections, someone is going to get hurt or something is going to get broken. The only real way is to get an overhead crane out there, weld a bracket to the top of the pole, and torch it off half way, lower it all onto your trailer. then torch off the rest, same way. (this will also require a lift, unless you have really long arms). The electrical can be killed off easily

    Unless you are charging for the removal and disposal of the entire unit, I'd say $600-$800 at least, plus the scrap... walk away. let a sign company that owns their own crane take care of it. crane service is usually $150 - $275/hr, depending on what size crane they have available, and that usually is charged from the time they pull out of their driveway, until the time they arrive back to it. So a 1 hour job might wind up costing you 2 hours. Just food for thought.

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  26. #14
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    Simple solution to this situation.

    Call a sign company , tell them what you want to do and ask them what they charge to do it.

    Don't tell them where it is just ask a "hypothetical" question.

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    this is not at all a bad idea. if you can get a price from a sign company to take it all down, and let them know that it does not include removal of the material, get their price, mark it up 10-20% and pass it on, then you walk away with either a guaranteed profit, with zero liability, or you don't mess with it at all. you can't lose anything but a few minutes of your time in that scenario. a lot of times a sign shop will just charge time and materials for something like that. you would just want to be clear that you want a solid bid, not a time and materials estimate/contract.

  28. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullion View Post
    Simple solution to this situation.

    Call a sign company , tell them what you want to do and ask them what they charge to do it.

    Don't tell them where it is just ask a "hypothetical" question.
    Chances are if the sign company says "$1500 bucks" they will be asked to be paid by the property owner that the sign resides. I doubt highly that you will be able to "broker the deal" and get anything out of it.

    Secondly, if they are asking someone to "tear it down for the metal" they are way too cheap to call and have it done by a licensed, bonded and insured sign company.

    My take- they already called XYZ sign company.. were quoted the $1500 bucks.. said "No way in heck are we paying that" and someones cousin's, brother's, friend of a friend said "Put it on CL and some scrapper will tear it down for free!"
    I'm so into scrapping.. When my Steel Toe Boots Wear out, I cut the Steel out of them and recycle the Toe!

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  30. #17
    phred59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledge View Post
    Chances are if the sign company says "$1500 bucks" they will be asked to be paid by the property owner that the sign resides. I doubt highly that you will be able to "broker the deal" and get anything out of it.

    Secondly, if they are asking someone to "tear it down for the metal" they are way too cheap to call and have it done by a licensed, bonded and insured sign company.

    My take- they already called XYZ sign company.. were quoted the $1500 bucks.. said "No way in heck are we paying that" and someones cousin's, brother's, friend of a friend said "Put it on CL and some scrapper will tear it down for free!"


    This is all true. it isn't likely to happen. my initial instinct is "just walk", but i'd always rather lay down a set of guidelines to avoid a bullet hole in the foot too. Anything that requires extensive equipment rental to make happen, is more than likely a money pit project with nothing but red ink waiting for you.

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  32. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by phred59 View Post
    This is all true. it isn't likely to happen. my initial instinct is "just walk", but i'd always rather lay down a set of guidelines to avoid a bullet hole in the foot too. Anything that requires extensive equipment rental to make happen, is more than likely a money pit project with nothing but red ink waiting for you.
    I like your line of thinking.. don't get me wrong.. been in similar type pinches- see $ there.. need some advice from far more seasoned vets than I am.. I come here.. someone or numerous guys will do the following:
    1. Gently Slap the Dollar Signs out of my eyes
    2. Give me the Pro's and Cons of my situation
    3. Allow me to make an educated decision of if/how I want to proceed.

    Can't ask for better than that!

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  34. #19
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    i completely get that. i am the same way. i just know a lot more about signs than i want to. i worked for a sign company for years. most of these threads teach me a lot more than i can offer in return.

    i am by no means a seasoned vet in 90% of the topics here, but the other 10%, i have been drug around the block a few times kicking and screaming and i would feel guilty if i didn't speak up on anything with the potential to become a disaster.

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  36. #20
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    These discussions are very valuable. They help clarify a decision, create a strategy, or at least force you to defend your position. Knowing your abilities, having the right equipment, and thinking out a strategy are key. I would still accept this job, as much for the challenge as for money. This is based on the owner accepting liability. You cannot expand you knowledge without stretching your comfort zone. This is not to say this type of job is for everybody. We need to learn to stretch the comfort zone without breaking it.

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