Motor Windings

So a while ago one of my buddies was hauling to the yard by me and he had brought some motor windings in. The guy at the scale said that the mill is buying windings as #3 now, huge price cut by me. Since then I've just been hoarding my windings. I haven't called around to any other yards yet, but I have a funny feeling that this is just specific to this yard.

This was probably 8 or 9 months ago, but has anyone else ran into this situation by them?

No such grade

It might be another name for "Domestic" & my scrap buyer changed Microwave transformer coils to 'Domestic Copper' a few years ago.

I wasn't happy about it & he said that "It's because of the extra varnish & paper on them".
He was a new guy & I don't really like him much but I think that with the changeover of employee they used this as a chance to regrade & degrade their classifications.

But if it's clean motor windings, like fridge compressors, without any joins on the wire or insulation, except for the varnish.
Nah, To me that's still "Copper #2"

No matter what they buy it as, I can say with absolute certainty they have the opportunity to sell it as #2 (maybe not if they have to sell it internally to a parent company that grades that way). So it's incompetency or avarice going on, neither related to actual copper recovery

I haven't had any problems selling as #2 so far.

Just to be on the safe side ... i have started keeping the motor windings and plumbing copper in different buckets. That way everything is all on the up and up. If they've got a problem with buying as #2 they can tell me and we can work it from there.

I read last week something about China changing import grades of Copper & trying to move away from 'waste' & to prefer Ingots instead.
This could have been a reason for the shift in how the metal seen in the eyes of the buyer.
'Waste' in this case would be the varnish on the wire.

I remember when, it was a couple of years ago now, the 'Burnt Copper wire' price went above the 'Domestic Copper' prices for a while, stayed the same or very close ever since.
Looking back now, I think 'Burnt Copper wire' could be directly melted into known quality ingots, while 'Domestic Copper' would produce varying quality of ingots.
China had cracked down on the imported scrapmetal with 'Rubbish' on it at the time, specifically the insulation on the wire.
About then the yards dropped the price on Copper wires with plugs on them too. I guess so it went directly from 'Granulate to seperate - melt into Ingots - Export to China'.
Granulation could be done in many smaller plants here while granulation with plugs on probably could only be done in or mill & they would buy it & process & sell to one buyer or Ingot it themselves, rather than contract out the process.

Originally Posted by eesakiwi

I read last week something about China changing import grades of Copper & trying to move away from 'waste' & to prefer Ingots instead.
This could have been a reason for the shift in how the metal seen in the eyes of the buyer.
'Waste' in this case would be the varnish on the wire.

I remember when, it was a couple of years ago now, the 'Burnt Copper wire' price went above the 'Domestic Copper' prices for a while, stayed the same or very close ever since.
Looking back now, I think 'Burnt Copper wire' could be directly melted into known quality ingots, while 'Domestic Copper' would produce varying quality of ingots.
China had cracked down on the imported scrapmetal with 'Rubbish' on it at the time, specifically the insulation on the wire.
About then the yards dropped the price on Copper wires with plugs on them too. I guess so it went directly from 'Granulate to seperate - melt into Ingots - Export to China'.
Granulation could be done in many smaller plants here while granulation with plugs on probably could only be done in or mill & they would buy it & process & sell to one buyer or Ingot it themselves, rather than contract out the process.

Shortly after starting my copper chop project was in contact with one of the bigger yards in the city, they informed me that they were not accepting copper chops.

Have not contacted any other yards as i have other plans for the chops.

Originally Posted by alloy2

Shortly after starting my copper chop project was in contact with one of the bigger yards in the city, they informed me that they were not accepting copper chops.

Have not contacted any other yards as i have other plans for the chops.

I think it may have more to do with being careful. Things like copper pipes and motor windings are well known quantities and easily identifiable in the scrap market. They are low risk. Copper chops are an exotic thing. They need a buyer that knows how to buy them. It would be the same for someone that brought ingots to a yard. Ingots could vary widely depending on the skill of the refiner. They're problematic you see.

As regards China's position on buying windings .... the best indicator might be the specs they have set fourth in regard to buying recycled materials for their manufacturing base.

Originally Posted by hills

I think it may have more to do with being careful. Things like copper pipes and motor windings are well known quantities and easily identifiable in the scrap market. They are low risk. Copper chops are an exotic thing. They need a buyer that knows how to buy them. It would be the same for someone that brought ingots to a yard. Ingots could vary widely depending on the skill of the refiner. They're problematic you see.

As regards China's position on buying windings .... the best indicator might be the specs they have set fourth in regard to buying recycled materials for their manufacturing base.

A lot of yards aren't equipped to test wire chop purity. Any yard with a working granulator would be a good option, or a mill that buys small quantities if there is one around.

China's standard for #2 copper is 1% contamination with an allowable variance to as low as 6%. Motor/transformer windings with paper/string and varnish still fall within the 1% contamination limit.

Originally Posted by CopperMine

We have used granulator to chop oily windings. The thread and tapes are removed. Oil is less noticeable because it has spread out over the larger surface area. Volume is reduced, too.

Do you do this to avoid the various Cu Domestic downgrades? Or can you get a winding chop price different than #2 analogous to Cu flake pricing from radiator shredding getting #1-ish pricing?