New to scrapping. Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I recently lost my business so I decided to start a junk hauling and scrap recycling business. It's only been two weeks since I started advertising and I haven't really picked up any jobs hauling junk so I've taken to going out on bulk night and picking up anything with metal in it. After 3 nights out working I thought I had a sizable sum of metal so I took a day, tested to determine whether ferrous or non ferrous, and sorted and broke everything down so it would fit in my pickup. As for the ferrous items it was mostly items like bed frames, shelving, assorted pieces of sheet metal, poles from a few soccer nets and basketball hoops and various flimsy pieces of metal I was able to grab from the roadside. For the non ferrous items I had aluminum sinks, some bats, lawn chairs, and some used sterno casings. I also picked up like a dozen lighting ballasts, some thin gauge copper wire, a small piece of brass pipe, and about two dozen light bulb sockets with the copper backing( I haven't scrapped these because I didn't have time to remove the copper and I'd bet all of it would barely amount to a pound). Anyway, I totaled in at 450 pounds of the ferrous stuff at .08 cents a pound, 42 pounds of aluminum at .50 cents a pound. 3 pounds of electrical wire at 1.40 a pound, 20 pounds of ballasts(listed on the invoice as c.b.m) at .18 cents a pound and 2 pounds of brass at 1.60 a pound. Do these numbers seem fair? The guy at the scrap yard seemed very cool and I don't know enough yet to be able to haggle and nothing annoys people more than a guy who argues over things he barely understands so I just took the price he offered. Aside from the prices I got I'm basically trying to figure out if you guys bother with bulk night and picking up ferrous metal in small quantities like that. As it is I made 68 bucks for driving around for a total of 15 hours or so and then spending another 6-7 hours breaking up the items and loading and unloading my truck so with gas prices and without even counting my labor I basically lost money. I know I have to figure out better ways to find the good metals, but the fact that I see steady crews of guys doing what I just did on a regular basis tells me I either did something wrong or I got cheated( I don't think this is the case) Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this and any advice you could give me would be much appreciated.

For your position in th industry the prices look reasonable. If you want paid well for breaking stuff down you are going to have to pick and choose what you break down better. I have totes of dirty cast au that is not worth my time to clean. On the other habd every auto rad gets cleaned before it leaves the shop. This isint exactly a jump in and make a fortune business anymore. When I started I could make all kinds of mistakes and still make money now days one goof up on a container could make it a loss quick. I load all my containers myself because we buy on such a tight margin that I cant afford to have one sent back.

Good luck, but it aint what it used to be.

Not to sound like an ass but what did you expect after 3 days of doing something that you really don't understand? What kind of results were you thinking you were gonna get? I mean if it was that easy to make money scrapping everyone would do it. Also you have 68 bucks more than you had 3 days ago.

Best advice is read the forums and use the search feature for any questions you may have. Like Rio said you need to pick the stuff that is worth ur time. Is it worth taking 20 mins to break down something that wieghs 1/20 of a pound of what ever. Good luck with your scrapping. I personally dont look at it as so much an hour. I look at how much money I have. I keep track of all my sales. If i make enought to pay my bills and some cash for fun the i am happy.
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Well your prices are dead on with what I have here. If your unemployed you have time to tear everything down as much as possible. There are people on here that don't touch crts. I on the other hand tear apart at least 100 a week. At first they were frustrating at best. Now it all most instinctive. You need to tear down the same thing several times to make it repetitive to see if it is worth it. With that you need to be dedicated, inventive, and not afraid to get your hands dirty. This industry is not for everyone. I've only been on this forum a little while and have a large number of people post once ot twice and never seen them again. I strongly encourage you to read old posts as there are several things out there that are extremely dangerous. On the other hand there is a lot of money to be made. I don't mean to sound demeaning when I any of this. Its just my opinion. Wellgood luck and happy scrapping.

For your position in th industry the prices look reasonable. If you want paid well for breaking stuff down you are going to have to pick and choose what you break down better. I have totes of dirty cast au that is not worth my time to clean. On the other habd every auto rad gets cleaned before it leaves the shop. This isint exactly a jump in and make a fortune business anymore. When I started I could make all kinds of mistakes and still make money now days one goof up on a container could make it a loss quick. I load all my containers myself because we buy on such a tight margin that I cant afford to have one sent back.

Good luck, but it aint what it used to be.

Thanks for your thoughts. I definitely won't be wasting time breaking down shelving and such anymore. At .08 cents a pound it isn't worth the trouble.

Yeah your getting in right along with everyone and there mother. you need to find a niche in ur area that you can fill cause every person that made it to 10th grade can figure out Craigslist by now. Prices are better then alot of yards i see. Network yourself around will make ur margins rise. With bulk nights in a densely populated area your going to have better luck parking that truck, have some flyers and go knock door to door and ask if they have any scrap metal they would like removed. how you get the to agree is ur homework. I havnt been in the scrap game long but in this big ass city its pretty funny to run around town hitting scrap yards for better pricing and getting walked up to by other scrappers/ lurkers that know my car and that i pay well for my scrap. Getting business cards will give you a huge leg up. -Good luck cause this game is nothing but hard work and thinking about how to make that buck turn into 2. Your either gonna hack it or burn out -Dune

I'm definitely trying to find that niche but it is gonna take some time. I've tried the flyers and the craigslist route as well as a small ad in a senior's magazine and so far no real action. I guess I'm gonna have to go the old fashioned route and just go around and talk to people. I've never been too keen on going door to door because most people(myself included) don't want to bothered at home but I suppose I can figure out another way to get this done. Trying to network and buy other people's scrap seems like a great idea that I'll have to give a go.


Not to sound like an ass but what did you expect after 3 days of doing something that you really don't understand? What kind of results were you thinking you were gonna get? I mean if it was that easy to make money scrapping everyone would do it. Also you have 68 bucks more than you had 3 days ago.

Best advice is read the forums and use the search feature for any questions you may have. Like Rio said you need to pick the stuff that is worth ur time. Is it worth taking 20 mins to break down something that wieghs 1/20 of a pound of what ever. Good luck with your scrapping. I personally dont look at it as so much an hour. I look at how much money I have. I keep track of all my sales. If i make enought to pay my bills and some cash for fun the i am happy.

No worries on sounding like an ass. But seriously I absolutely didn't expect something for nothing. I understand it takes hard work and know how to survive yet alone thrive and I don't mind putting in the work but the way I went about it all the hard work and know how in the world and I'd still be in the red. I'm not sweating the loss too much because it's just a lesson to learn from, but I did find it curious that I saw 4 different 2 man crews out pulling the same types of items I was and I spoke to 1 other guy briefly that night and he said he'd been doing it for years in that area and he makes out ok. I was just alarmed because I figured I screwed up either in the sale or breaking things up because I can't imagine a two man crew making any money doing what I did by myself. I definitely won't bother pulling anything a magnet sticks to unless it's heavy and compact. Anyhow, thanks for answering.

Scrap happy, what yard did you go to because I think you got low balled on the ferrous price. I am on the island too and since I started in March I haven't gotten less than .11# for my scrap metal. The two I use are Gershow which has 8 yards all over the island and 2 brothers which is on rte 110. Both yards have been good to me and helpful.

I used A & A in Queens. I went with them over Gershow mainly because the guy I spoke to at Gershow acted like he couldn't be bothered when I tried to ask him a couple of questions on the phone. I haven't spoken to Two Brothers.

Dunemaul. Are you saying that there are other scrappers out there?

.08 a pound for ferrous? That works out to $160 a ton. I think you could find a better yard that pays more. You should be getting $200 a ton at the minimum, especially being so close to a port.

For the lighting ballasts, were they the black sealed rectangular type?

I brought some to my yard, and they told me they we hazmat and that they would not take them even for shred

What you are "doing wrong" is expecting immediate results. Give it some time.

ScrapHappy, welcome to the scrapping business! Ive been been doing it full time for about 6 months. So Im a newbie also. You will find that there is something to be learned everyday. I wish that someone would have told me what I am about to tell you when I was starting off. Here goes.

At every scrap yard I go to you have to fight (at least ask) for the price that you deserve. For example the scrap yard by my house, if you ask them how much they are buying clean aluminum for they will say .23 cents lb. Then all I do is ask if they can do .50cents lbs and without blinking an eye they say yes. Wow! that is more than double the price. This goes with lots of other metals. Ask them if they take competitor coupons, ask them if that is the best price they can do, You have to work to get the fair price. Get to know the people at the yard and try to get comfortable with them, if they are comfortable with you they will give you tips, pay you top dollar, and help you out as you are learning. Also when you go to different yard ask questions and make comments so they know that you arent just going to take the lowest price available.

As for the ferrous stuff (this is important), at the yard that I go to they have 3 types of ferrous pricing.
1. Tin: this is thin metal, stuff that comes off of appliances and other thin metals. $200 a ton (.10 cents per lb)
2. #1 unprepared: This is thicker metal (3/8in thick and up) and longer than 4ft. $260 a ton (.13 cents per lb)
3. #1 HMS: This is steel 3/8 and up but, shorter than 4ft. $290 a ton (.145 cents per lb)

So, I usually take all of the plastic and rubber and clean up the steel and cut it down under 4ft. I usually always get #1 unprepared or #1HMS. Sometime I have a mix of tin and #1HMS and I get the #1unprepared price. When I go in I tell them that I took the time to break everything down and take the plastics off, etc. and they will upgrade the price. If I have something like just a water heater then I usually get tin price.

As far as picking stuff up, try to have your truck full every chance you can. For example, if you are going to pick up a couple of water heaters, make sure on the way that you recycle the metal you got already and then pick up the water heaters. I usually dont go after soft leads. If there is an address of someone that is giving some metal away and they are advertising it as 1st come 1st serve I usually dont pursue it. I only pursue ads when I talk to the owner and they are going to hold it for me. I sometimes go after first come first serve stuff when I can arrive at the location before 30min from when the ad was posted.

alright scrap happy I hope that that helps.

Originally Posted by RSComputer

Well your prices are dead on with what I have here. If your unemployed you have time to tear everything down as much as possible. There are people on here that don't touch crts. I on the other hand tear apart at least 100 a week. At first they were frustrating at best. Now it all most instinctive. You need to tear down the same thing several times to make it repetitive to see if it is worth it. With that you need to be dedicated, inventive, and not afraid to get your hands dirty. This industry is not for everyone. I've only been on this forum a little while and have a large number of people post once ot twice and never seen them again. I strongly encourage you to read old posts as there are several things out there that are extremely dangerous. On the other hand there is a lot of money to be made. I don't mean to sound demeaning when I any of this. Its just my opinion. Wellgood luck and happy scrapping.

RSComputer, I have some questions about breaking down electronics. Do you know off hand which electronics are "extremely dangerous"? Or what I need to be careful with. I know that the lead dust inside the CRT glass is quite hazardous. It is usually ingested by inhaling the dust when the CRT glass is broken. I never break the lead glass when I break down CRTs but, is it dangerous to touch the outside of the glass ? It looks like it is coated with a layer of lead.

What else is dangerous? I want to put safety first I have a couple of people working for me and I feel like their health is in my hands.

thanks!

With TVs and monitors, it's not lead dust in the glass floating around. The lead (and phosphorus) is actually part of the glass. The phosphor glows when excited in a vacuum. The glass has a vacuum in it. If the glass is broken, an implosion, rather than an explosion, of glass occurs. If the glass breaks there are several hazards. For adults, breathing a little lead dust isn't actually that harmful. It will mess up your brain a bit, but it's on par with getting drunk. It will also mess up your lungs, about on par with smoking. For children though, breathing lead dust leads to all kinds of developmental problems. This is why they outlawed lead in paint - kids were eating it (they eat the darndest things sometimes) and old paint flakes off and gets inhaled. Really messes with kids. The next hazard is glass shards. No matter how well I clean up broken glass (and luckily I've never broken a CRT) I always manage to step on a piece with a bare foot. Avoid this by not breaking the glass in the first place.

The dust on the outside of the glass isn't lead. But, I wouldn't breathe it either. It's gross and smells bad. If something smells or tastes bad, there's a reason for it - it's not good to smell or eat. Nature's way of protecting us.

Use common sense. Wear eye protection. Wear gloves. Wear a dust mask or respirator. Those are in order of importance.

As for which electronics are "extremely dangerous" - either all of them or none of them. It depends on how you look at it. Any electronic device that is plugged in is extremely dangerous to someone poking around with a screwdriver. Any electronic device is completely safe when all applicable safety precautions are taken. Common sense only goes so far though. If you don't know that a CRT tube holds an electric charge even days after it's been unplugged - you're liable to get a shock (just ask Hoss). The cure for ignorance is reading though. Before I broke down my first monitor, I watched several youtube clips and read several posts at this forum (and others). Same with my first microwave. Learned there's a nasty bit of ceramic made with beryllium oxide - far worse than leaded glass. I learned how to discharge a capacitor (and a CRT). I learned to discharge a CRT more than once - thanks Hoss! If you don't know how to do something, make Google and YouTube your friend. Ignorance can be cured - stupidity can't.

Just to add something to the idea of picking and choosing what to break down and not. Get a shipping scale and weigh out what your getting and how much you made and how much time involved.

For example, I was sitting on a 100 cd/ dvd drives, etc. Took like 10 apart, got all the motors, brass gears, etc. Weighed it out and didnt even make $3.00 dollars in a half hour lol. The motors are tiny, don't weigh nothing. And the brass aint much.

So lesson learned. Pulled the boards and rest in shred. cd drives are 15c shipped to a escrap buyer, so not worth shipping. But the boards are mid, so worth shipping those I think. lol.

I used to break everything down, not anymore. Vcrs, drives, toasters, all that, go right into the shred. Cut the coards, pull the boards out of the cd drives, and rest shred. Just to give a idea... Scale is ya friend....:>

Originally Posted by waredu

With TVs and monitors, it's not lead dust in the glass floating around. The lead (and phosphorus) is actually part of the glass. The phosphor glows when excited in a vacuum. The glass has a vacuum in it. If the glass is broken, an implosion, rather than an explosion, of glass occurs. If the glass breaks there are several hazards. For adults, breathing a little lead dust isn't actually that harmful. It will mess up your brain a bit, but it's on par with getting drunk. It will also mess up your lungs, about on par with smoking. For children though, breathing lead dust leads to all kinds of developmental problems. This is why they outlawed lead in paint - kids were eating it (they eat the darndest things sometimes) and old paint flakes off and gets inhaled. Really messes with kids. The next hazard is glass shards. No matter how well I clean up broken glass (and luckily I've never broken a CRT) I always manage to step on a piece with a bare foot. Avoid this by not breaking the glass in the first place.

The dust on the outside of the glass isn't lead. But, I wouldn't breathe it either. It's gross and smells bad. If something smells or tastes bad, there's a reason for it - it's not good to smell or eat. Nature's way of protecting us.

Use common sense. Wear eye protection. Wear gloves. Wear a dust mask or respirator. Those are in order of importance.

As for which electronics are "extremely dangerous" - either all of them or none of them. It depends on how you look at it. Any electronic device that is plugged in is extremely dangerous to someone poking around with a screwdriver. Any electronic device is completely safe when all applicable safety precautions are taken. Common sense only goes so far though. If you don't know that a CRT tube holds an electric charge even days after it's been unplugged - you're liable to get a shock (just ask Hoss). The cure for ignorance is reading though. Before I broke down my first monitor, I watched several youtube clips and read several posts at this forum (and others). Same with my first microwave. Learned there's a nasty bit of ceramic made with beryllium oxide - far worse than leaded glass. I learned how to discharge a capacitor (and a CRT). I learned to discharge a CRT more than once - thanks Hoss! If you don't know how to do something, make Google and YouTube your friend. Ignorance can be cured - stupidity can't.

waredu, thanks for the reply! Yes I definitely watch a ton of videos on breaking stuff down and read on different sites about breaking stuff down. Im aware of the electric charge, the dust that comes up when the glass is broke, and even the ceramic that comes from magnatrons in microwaves. Some times I catch my workers not wearing the protective gear (eye glasses, gloves, nor dust masks. I just want to make sure they arent going to fall over and die one day.

I guess my main concern is the chemicals that are in electronics. I read that some toners can be toxic, and the fire retardant that is contained within some electronics also.

I was reading another thread that talks about hazardous chemical that are in e-waste. It sites a lot of chemical but, it doesnt talk about exactly what electronics they come from and what can be done to be safe. Here is that thread:

http://www.scrapmetalforum.com/showt...hazards+ewaste

Any replies would be great

thanks

I sell al my ferrous and non ferrous at a yard 1.5 miles from home.Backing the fall when I started clueless sold some dirty al an surety copper. The guy at the scale told me how to do better with those items. So next trip my stuff was clean and sorted. I learned so much from him it makes money every day he tells me how to and what to break down. Others say I should drive 5 miles more to get more pennies. Learn what yard wants make it easy for them and it pays. I will not go anywhere else becausein I have good working relationship. Read, listen and ask and learn.