Not for sure but I think I have to get a $200 license

[RyanScrap]

Tell me if I am reading this correctly:

ARTICLE 3. SCRAP METAL DEALERS
5.301. SCRAP METAL DEALERS; REGISTRATION REQUIRED. It shall be unlawful for any business to purchase any regulated scrap metal without having first registered each place of business with the city as herein provided.
5.302. SAME; DEFINITIONS. The words and phrases listed below when used in this ordinance shall have the following meanings:
(a) Scrap metal dealer means any person that operates a business out of a fixed location, and that is also either:
(1) Engaged in the business of buying and dealing in regulated scrap metal;
(2) Purchasing, gathering, collecting, soliciting or procuring regulated scrap metal; or
(3) Operating, carrying on, conducting or maintaining a regulated scrap metal yard or place where regulated scrap metal is gathered together and stored or kept for shipment, sale or transfer.
(b) Regulated scrap metal yard means any yard, plot, space, enclosure, building or any other place where regulated scrap metal is collected, gathered together and stored or kept for shipment, sale or transfer.
(c) Regulated scrap metal shall mean wire, cable, bars, ingots, wire scraps, pieces, pellets, clamps, aircraft parts, junk vehicles, vehicle parts, pipes or connectors made from aluminum; catalytic converters containing platinum, palladium or rhodium; and copper, titanium, tungsten, stainless steel and nickel in any form; for which the purchase price described in K.S.A. 2010 Supp. 50-6,110 and 50-6,111, and amendments thereto, was primarily based on the content therein of aluminum, copper, titanium, tungsten, nickel, platinum, palladium, stainless steel or rhodium; any item composed in whole or in part of any nonferrous metal other than an item composed of tin, that is purchased or otherwise acquired for the purpose of recycling or storage for later recycling. Aluminum shall not include food or beverage containers.
(d) Bales of regulated metal means regulated scrap metal properly processed with professional recycling equipment by compression, shearing or shredding, to a form in which it may be sold by a scrap metal dealer consistent with industry standards.
(e) Ferrous metal means a metal that contains iron or steel.
(f) Junk vehicle means a vehicle not requiring a title as provided in chapter 8 of the Kansas
87
Statutes Annotated, and amendments thereto, aircraft, boat, farming implement, industrial equipment, trailer or any other conveyance used on the highways and roadways, which has no use or resale value except as scrap.
(g) Nonferrous metal means a metal that does not contain iron or steel, including but not limited to, copper, brass, aluminum, bronze, lead, zinc, nickel and their alloys.
(h) Tin means a metal consisting predominantly of light sheet metal ferrous scrap, including large and small household appliances, construction siding and construction roofing.
(i) Vehicle part means the front clip consisting of the two front fenders, hood, grill and front bumper of an automobile assembled as one unit; or the rear clip consisting of those body parts behind the rear edge of the back doors, including both rear quarter panels, the rear window, trunk lid, trunk floor panel and rear bumper, assembled as one unit; or any other vehicle part.
5.303. SAME; REGISTRATION; APPLICATION; FEES; PENALTY.
(a) Application for registration for a scrap metal dealer shall be verified and made upon a form furnished by the city and approved by the attorney general and shall contain:
(1) The name and residence of the applicant;
(2) The length of time that the applicant has resided within the state of Kansas and a list of all residences outside the state of Kansas during the previous 10 years;
(3) The particular place of business for which a registration is desired;
(4) The name of the owner of the premises upon which the place of business is located; and,
(5) The applicant shall disclose any prior convictions within 10 years immediately preceding the date of making the registration for theft, as defined in K.S.A. 21-3701, prior to its repeal, or section 87 of chapter 136 of the 2010 Session Laws of Kansas, theft of property lost, mislaid or delivered by mistake, as defined in K.S.A. 21-3703, prior to its repeal, or section 88 of chapter 136 of the 2010 Session Laws of Kansas, theft of services, as defined in K.S.A. 21-3704, prior to its repeal, criminal deprivation of property, as defined in K.S.A. 21-3705, prior to its repeal, or section 89 of chapter 136 of the 2010 Session Laws of Kansas, or any other crime involving possession of stolen property.
(6) In addition to the information required in subsection (a)(5), above, the applicant shall also disclose any prior convictions within 10 years immediately preceding the date of making the application for registration for any federal or local crime or offense similar to those stated in subsection (a)(5), to include, but not be limited to, sections 6.1, theft, 6.3, theft of lost or mislaid property, and 6.5, criminal deprivation of property, and amendments thereto, of the Uniform Public Offense Code for Kansas Cities.
(b) Each registration for a scrap metal dealer to purchase regulated scrap metal shall be accompanied by a fee of $200.
(c) The city clerk shall provide the chief of police written notice of the filing of registration by a scrap metal dealer within 10 days of registration or renewal.

This is my local ordinance, and if I have to purchase a $200 license just to scrap metal that is really absurd.

[TheMetalScrapper]

Hate to say it, but yes that is the way I read it. Just another way for the man to get into your pocket! Here is how I read it (and to the extreme side) they (government body) could under this law make you pay this fee even if you were a guy who goes down the road side picking up cans to supplement your income. You said it and I agree ABSURD!

[NHscrapman]

are you a registered business in Kansas?
If not i don't see why you would fall under this law

[ryanw]

are you a registered business in Kansas?
If not i don't see why you would fall under this law

I agree. I was about to say that this looks like what was spelled out when I was applying for a business license.

[RyanScrap]

are you a registered business in Kansas?
If not i don't see why you would fall under this law

Scrap metal dealer means any person that operates a business out of a fixed location.

So I am a person who is getting metal, taking it to my house, and then selling it for a profit.

Could this not be looked at as a home business?

I could argue it is a hobby, but after making what is it $600? I have to declare it on taxes (even though it should be declared no matter what).

Kansas Definition of business:

Statute 17-7303: Same; doing business in Kansas; classification of activities. (a) Activities of a foreign corporation which do not constitute doing business within the meaning of K.S.A. 17-7301, and amendments thereto, include:
(1) Maintaining, defending or settling an action or proceeding;

(2) holding meetings or carrying on any other activity concerning its internal affairs;

(3) maintaining bank accounts;

(4) maintaining offices or agencies for the transfer, exchange and registration of the corporation's own securities or maintaining trustees or depositories with respect to those securities;

(5) selling through independent contractors;

(6) soliciting or obtaining orders, whether by mail or electronic commerce or through employees or agents or otherwise, if the orders require acceptance outside this state before they become contracts;

(7) creating or acquiring indebtedness, mortgages or security interests in real or personal property;

(8) securing or collecting debts or foreclosing mortgages or other security interests in property securing the debts, and holding, protecting and maintaining property so acquired;

(9) conducting an isolated transaction that is completed within 30 days and is not one in the course of similar transactions of like nature; and

(10) transacting business in interstate commerce.

(b) The ownership in this state of income producing real property or tangible personal property, other than property excluded under subsection (a), constitutes transacting business in this state.

(c) This section does not apply in determining the contacts or activities that may subject a foreign corporation to service of process, taxation or regulation under any other law of this state.

History: L. 1972, ch. 52, § 143; L. 1973, ch. 100, § 20; L. 2004, ch. 143, § 80; Jan. 1, 2005.

Sigh... I mean do not get me wrong, I really hope you are right, but otherwise to do this is $200... and it is under YEARLY RENEWAL.

So it is $200 a year.

This really SUCKS. Hope im wrong about this. Who would I contact to make for sure? City Hall?

[Russell]

If you do fall under this category. Remember this: it sometimes costs money to make money. If you aren't willing to spend money or risk loosing money being a sole proprietor, being self employed, or being a business owner this is not for you. $200 is really not a lot of money to start up a new venture. Most hobbies cost you money, so in the grand scheme of things IF $200 gets you started you are doing great. I wont even get into what it costs me and I am still not sure if I abide %100.

[Mick]

If you store stuff, it looks like it. But if you pick it up and haul it to the scrap yard without unloading, then I'd say "No". Also, here "storing" means it remains in one location for a specified period of time. And I think if you analyzed the definition of "business", I don't think you'd meet it. I also doubt you'd meet the definition of "yard".

First, are you open to the public? Or have published hours of operation?

[Bear]

I've been told a state representative is a good person to talk to

[KzScrapper]

If you ask, they of coarse are going to want your $200.

You might want to sit down and try and figure out where you see yourself in a year or two and then execute a plan.

Sounds like your scrapping from a car right now and you could probably fly under the radar with the use of a little common sense for now.

About two and a half years I thought shred was something you did to cheese...now recycling is the main source of income.

[Ironhunter]

I will pretty much guarantee the answer will be yes, if for no other reason than a CYA, and the purpose of the statute is to add income to the state coffers... JMHO.

[JohnC4X4]

If you are claiming the income and doing the SCH C
The $200.00 is just another line item deduction on the SCH C form
So you give it to the local Government and Uncle Sam gives a portion of it back come tax time

If you are flying above the radar
Pay the $200.00 and also get any other Licenses and Insurance needed

If you are flying under the Radar
I wouldn't worry about it until they come knocking at your door asking if you have one
At that point act stupid and pay the additional fine

Is the vehicle you are using to do this properly labeled?
Company name, Phone number and address
If >> YES >> I would spend the $200.00
If >> NO >> I wouldn't

[taterjuice]

I worried bout this last year, even talked to the county attorney. But unless your a full fledged scrap yard this does NOT apply to you !

[Mechanic688]

He is not buying scrap from the other scrappers or have a business license so I would say him and a hundred others like him are exempt.

[taterjuice]

I'm talking from experience, they passed this law last year, I talked to my county attorney, the guy at my yard, who talked to his county attorney, and the results were unanimous, only applies to full fledged scrap yards. When they passed this, which went into effect jan 1 this year, everyone who part times was worried this would affect them but all it really does is put more regulation and paper work for the yard you sell to.

[cummins]

get the lic and start advertising like crazy that your licensed...

[Phantoms001]

I worried bout this last year, even talked to the county attorney. But unless your a full fledged scrap yard this does NOT apply to you !

I would agree just by reading what is posted. You are taking things out of context because you do not understand what you are reading...


ARTICLE 3. SCRAP METAL DEALERS
5.301. SCRAP METAL DEALERS; REGISTRATION REQUIRED. It shall be unlawful for any business to purchase any regulated scrap metal without having first registered each place of business with the city as herein provided.

Are you a business purchasing scrap metal?? No??? Nothing else in section 5.3xx applies to you, it doesn't matter what it says.

[taterjuice]

I would agree just by reading what is posted. You are taking things out of context because you do not understand what you are reading...


ARTICLE 3. SCRAP METAL DEALERS
5.301. SCRAP METAL DEALERS; REGISTRATION REQUIRED. It shall be unlawful for any business to purchase any regulated scrap metal without having first registered each place of business with the city as herein provided.

Are you a business purchasing scrap metal?? No??? Nothing else in section 5.3xx applies to you, it doesn't matter what it says.

Did you miss the part where I said I talked to 2 different county attorneys who said this doesn't apply to guys like us ? Who would know better than the people that enforce the laws ? If someone was worried about it I would talk to your county attorney and go from there. And Im pretty sure I can read and understand what the law is about, but unless your county attorney is worried about it, I wouldn't be either.

[RyanScrap]

I would agree just by reading what is posted. You are taking things out of context because you do not understand what you are reading...


ARTICLE 3. SCRAP METAL DEALERS
5.301. SCRAP METAL DEALERS; REGISTRATION REQUIRED. It shall be unlawful for any business to purchase any regulated scrap metal without having first registered each place of business with the city as herein provided.

Are you a business purchasing scrap metal?? No??? Nothing else in section 5.3xx applies to you, it doesn't matter what it says.

In order to be a "scrap dealer" you have to be a "business" who is transacting in "regulated scrap".

Therefore if I am storing metal at my house, and earning income on said metal when I turn in my taxes you do not think this is a home based business?


Maybe the drawing line is where I do not get tax deductions for the business, and just claim the income from "other sources".


Heck at the very least I can just scrap, and not turn anything in until I am sure I have $200 in scrap to buy the license if they require it.


I am going to call my city hall today, and see what their opinion is.

[taterjuice]

I will pretty much guarantee the answer will be yes, if for no other reason than a CYA, and the purpose of the statute is to add income to the state coffers... JMHO.

Couldnt agree more ! They use scrap theft as an excuse to get their dirty mits on more money ! And also, to regulate the little guy out of business because the big guy donates to their campaign. Little known fact about this law is it was written by a board, several members of which have a large stake in or run large scrap yards in Topeka and kc k. You getting the picture now ? And this is exactly why I refuse to sell scrap to any large corprate yard !

[Phantoms001]

Did you miss the part where I said I talked to 2 different county attorneys who said this doesn't apply to guys like us ? Who would know better than the people that enforce the laws ? If someone was worried about it I would talk to your county attorney and go from there. And Im pretty sure I can read and understand what the law is about, but unless your county attorney is worried about it, I wouldn't be either.

Perhaps I wasn't really clear in my post tater. I simply agreed with you after reading the statute because it clearly would not apply to the average person collecting scrap. The second part was directed towards Ryanscrap, he was reading things out of context and applying HIS meaning, not what the statute actually says.