Discussion of Copper Wire- Auto Wiring Harness!

So this starts off with a bit of a Rant. I need some fellow scrappers to chime in.
Recently we had a topic about Cat5, Cat5e, Cat 6 and RG's which I think we covered and addressed.

Today I have a new one. I'm fumed.. but I'm always ready to be "schooled" So here it goes:

I pull my wiring harness out of any junk vehicle.
This is how I have always been paid:

A. Graded "Wiring Harness" (Includes all ends, bulbs, tape, and flex-loom) = .75/lb
B. If I cut all the ends off and leave none of what I said- Meaning you have red and blue and whatever other color insulated wire- I have been paid for #2 Clean Copper Wire = $1.00/lb

So my latest trip to the buyer- I did just that- I brought in a bucket of "Harness" and a Bucket of "Clean #2"

The guy says "This harness is junk- it has all the plastic and ends" I stated- "there is still a bunch of wire in it" I'm not just clipping ends and turning in the ends. He said "I know what you are doing- you are cutting off as much goodies as you can and some of the other is going in as harness" I said "Doesn't that fit the criteria of Harness?- Tape, Flex Loom, ends, all connected to wiring?"

He told me I was cutting it close? WTF? Some of these literally had 1" diameter slugs of bundled wires going to connectors. And YES I'd be an idiot to not cut off the low hanging fruit of clean wire to get $1/lb vs .75/lb

So I even talked to the owner and apparently their upstream buyer now says that even if it is what has ALWAYS been graded CLEAN #2- that they will only pay my core buyer at "Communication Wire Rate"

So in a nutshell- if I leave all of it as it is pulled- I get .75- no hassle, no questions, no problem
If I CLEAN the harness wire- it is not #2 anymore- it is now "Communication wire" at .40/lb

I need thoughts on this one. Sounds like the upstream buyer is literally STEALING from anyone who feeds them!

I asked for an education last time I was at my favorite yard. Basically for me number 2 wire is appliance with no ends or connectors. I get 0.20 cents for ends. 1.05 for number 2.

Take all your wire and sell elsewhere. Wait till you have lots too. Then you can bargain.

Personally I'd be cleaning them as some of that harness would go as #1 up here at 1.20 lb, the ends would go in a bucket to go after filling up. Dirty brass I think.

Dave-
You scrap cars. So under this circumstance- if you pull harness and clean it (Meaning its a rainbow of insulated wires) what do they grade that wire at for you?

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

Personally I'd be cleaning them as some of that harness would go as #1 up here at 1.20 lb, the ends would go in a bucket to go after filling up. Dirty brass I think.

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See this is my thought- more work, taking all the "garbage" off of it and you have a fist-full of insulated stranded copper wire- It is the very definition of #2 copper wire! Now they are telling me it is Communication wire? At .40? I'm better leaving all the crap on and getting .75.. but I smell a huge pile of BULLWATER!

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Originally Posted by sledge

See this is my thought- more work, taking all the "garbage" off of it and you have a fist-full of insulated stranded copper wire- It is the very definition of #2 copper wire! Now they are telling me it is Communication wire? At .40? I'm better leaving all the crap on and getting .75.. but I smell a huge pile of BULLWATER!

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I'm agreeing with you that it should be at least #2 with some #1 mixed in. Comm wire is ribbon wire out of computers, anything small, etc.
I take my larger stuff to my main yard, but they only pay .60 for comm wire so it goes to my #2 yard at .80 lb.
That 14-18 ga wire is #2 here and 12 ga is considered #1. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

I'm agreeing with you that it should be at least #2 with some #1 mixed in. Comm wire is ribbon wire out of computers, anything small, etc.
I take my larger stuff to my main yard, but they only pay .60 for comm wire so it goes to my #2 yard at .80 lb.
That 14-18 ga wire is #2 here and 12 ga is considered #1. Good luck.

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Thanks Mech: I just wanted to be sure I wasn't crazy! I think my Core buyer is getting SCREWED by their upstream buyer (who is a rat corporation) They are continuously finding ways to squeeze their feeders and their walk in scale clients. In return.. my core buyer HAS to buy at what Rat Corp will pay them for- even if they are DEAD WRONG.

Mind you this is the same company that will now buy at #1 copper ONLY if it is as shiny as a new penny- the days of cutting off your solder joints on copper pipe and it being #1 are gone as far as they are concerned. So if I pull say 50 feet of copper pipe off a job, cut all solder joints they will grade it as #2 because it will have green patina on it.

I'm getting worn out. CONSTANTLY Working hard to clean and bring my stuff in "RIGHT" (i.e. the way I've been told they need it cleaned) and they are still finding ways to put the screws to their clients- either directly or indirectly. Someone's getting rich.. and it sure as hell ain't us!

I got sick of this same type of crap with wire at my local yard. What I do now is wait til I have 500-1000 lbs of it. Then I go to the yard and ask them what they are willing to pay.

The new yard I have been using pays .65 per pound for #2 wire. I had about 900 lbs, and they gave me 1.00 per lb. It is all about quantity.

Cant help you sledge . At my yard I get .90 a pound for ALL wire ( ext cords , christmas lights, romex etc). Its fine with me I just strip all the big stuff and sell the rest as insulated

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Originally Posted by redcrossnj

Cant help you sledge . At my yard I get .90 a pound for ALL wire ( ext cords , christmas lights, romex etc). Its fine with me I just strip all the big stuff and sell the rest as insulated

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Maybe I just need to move back east?
v:)

I'm tempted to start buying harness wire with no ends for $1 lb. I have a specialty buyer for it.

I think my yard pays about $1 lb

I get a $1/lb for clean harness wire, otherwise it's "breakage" at .25/lb

They did this at my yard last year too.
Upgraded the 'looms' specification, and dropped the price at the same time.
I would have got $2.70/kg , now its $1.60/kg with all the plugs cut off.

But they put up a notice on the wall about it so everyone knew.
I think its because at the end user they have to get rid of so much rubbish before they send it thru the granulator.
Get rid of the plugs (full of dirt too) get rid of the outside tape, take into account all the little brass connectors.

If they can get plain plastic coated wire and granulate it, they probably get rid of the brass at the same time.

We never ever got #1 for Copper pipe. Its always been classed as 'Domestic Copper'.

Woops, double posted

ps. We don't get paid different amounts for the different Copper % in our plastic coated wire either.
Just the lowest % amount of 45%...
I'm trying to find a yard that does though, saves burning it off.

BURNING IT OFF!??!
Please don't do that!
It is bad for the environment and frowned upon here at SMF.

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Originally Posted by sledge

Dave-
You scrap cars. So under this circumstance- if you pull harness and clean it (Meaning its a rainbow of insulated wires) what do they grade that wire at for you?

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Sorry should have been more elaborate.
I save mine 'cause I feel like I am not getting the best price either. My e-waste guy in Montreal takes all number 2 at 1.05 a pound, connectors loom and all. He gets all my wire, and makes the trip worthwhile for me to bring my boards, HDs and power supplies. When I go I have a few 55 gal drums full of wire.
I am more likely to strip appliances of wire than to go after the wiring harness of a car. (not that I haven't done it a few times..)
On a side note I always get the wire to and from the startor to battery and the ground (that's nice stuff).

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

Sorry should have been more elaborate.
I save mine 'cause I feel like I am not getting the best price either. My e-waste guy in Montreal takes all number 2 at 1.05 a pound, connectors loom and all. He gets all my wire, and makes the trip worthwhile for me to bring my boards, HDs and power supplies. When I go I have a few 55 gal drums full of wire.
I am more likely to strip appliances of wire than to go after the wiring harness of a car. (not that I haven't done it a few times..)
On a side note I always get the wire to and from the startor to battery and the ground (that's nice stuff).

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Thanks for your reply. Wow $1.05.. Now THAT is Nice!! (Battery Cable wiring from starter is also!!!)
:)

My yards will take pretty much any junky insulated wire for .85/#. Mine consists mainly of O2 sensor harness (thin wire with lots of plugs/junk) and battery leads and heavier wire from starters and alternators (heavier wire, but still with some junk). It's a mix, but I will cut off any steel brackets, battery terminals or other really heavy junk. For the type of insulated wire I usually have, I'm happy with .85. My yard guys always treat me fair on everything, and both of my yards sell me a good mix of automotive core material. That's why they get my business.

I took a load of ferrus in last week and noticed the copper prices: #2 $2.45/lb, #2 insulated: $0.75lb and low recovery $0.13/lb. Christmas lights are considered low recovery.

My yard only pays .25/lb for Xmas lights. I have about about 600 lbs of insulated wire that I have to sort. Then probably close to 100 lbs of 10 gauge which will be stripped this winter. Most yards in my area don't differ to much on price on insulated, but stripped is always better.

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Originally Posted by Rollyrogers33

My yard only pays .25/lb for Xmas lights. I have about about 600 lbs of insulated wire that I have to sort. Then probably close to 100 lbs of 10 gauge which will be stripped this winter. Most yards in my area don't differ to much on price on insulated, but stripped is always better.

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I normally don't sell wire to my main yard, but sold my Xmas lights when they told me they would go in with the 30% wire. Top tier price was 60 cents a pound. As long as they consider it 30%, they'll get all my Xmas lights.

Ok.. So take a look at this:
Say- Before: PIC #1
*EDIT- Ok Some Dude Changed the Pic I was connecting off Internet* GRRRR Wasn't Home to DL and Post from my own archives***

and After: Pic #2
http://www.isham-research.co.uk/quat.../s6-loom-2.jpg

What would your yard pay you as to GRADE and Price for PIC #2?

When you bend it and it bends back, then it is number 2.(1.05/pound) that stuff is number 2. If you bend it and it STAYS bent, usually solid core, that is number 1. (1.28/pound)
This is how my main yard grades it.
Now the concern is whether or not the connectors and loom come into play. Do you have any other options as to where you can sell it?

It is hard to tell from the pictures, but my yard would pay around 70 cents/lb with the outer insulation left on, and about 1.60 for the stuff in the bottom picture. Most yards would buy it as machine wire.

So we all agree that this.. without a doubt.. is #2 Insulated Copper wire!

The rat corporation that my core buyer sells too upstream- is buying this off of their suppliers as "Communication wire" Not sure the price the core buyer is getting from rat corporation.. but I'd get paid .40/lb- See the Bullwater here?

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Originally Posted by sledge

So we all agree that this.. without a doubt.. is #2 Insulated Copper wire!

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I would agree.

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Originally Posted by sledge

So we all agree that this.. without a doubt.. is #2 Insulated Copper wire!

The rat corporation that my core buyer sells too upstream- is buying this off of their suppliers as "Communication wire" Not sure the price the core buyer is getting from rat corporation.. but I'd get paid .40/lb- See the Bullwater here?

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Comm wire...? Is that stuff the super fine, multiclcolour telephone wire? Or like phone cables etc? Maybe you're yard thinks thats what this is cause its thin and cause of the multi colours? If thats the case Rat Corp probably wont say jack to correct them cause they'll be getting higher grade stuff at a low price.

Just guessing here, its doubtful that your yard is that uneducated on wiring but iv seen stupider stuff...

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Originally Posted by jord0690

comm wire...? If thats the case rat corp probably wont say jack to correct them cause they'll be getting higher grade stuff at a low price.

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bingo!

Here is a definition from this site, not promoting it but just borrowing some info.

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#2 Insulated Copper Wire shall consist of miscellaneous, unalloyed copper wire. It is plastic insulated, includes heavy or double insulation, Wire smaller than 16 gauge is acceptable. Some corrosion or other coatings such as tin and nickel are also considered #2 insulated copper. If insulation were to be removed, it would look like #2 copper wire. #2 Insulated Copper Wire includes most telecommunication wire such as cat4, cat5, cat6 and phone wire without plugs. Another example are most 110 outlet cords and extension cords, have their ends off.

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Different Grades of Copper Scrap

I mostly scrap cars and that is #2 all day long with no harnesses or tape. I find that it is worth it to strip it and get bare bright price. I pull about 100 lbs a week of those wires. I toss the harnesses in with the shred

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Originally Posted by Mechanic688

Here is a definition from this site, not promoting it but just borrowing some info.


Different Grades of Copper Scrap

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Thanks Mechanic!! I think I will print this off and take it to my buyer the next trip.

To Be Clear to All: I'm NOT mad at the Core Buyer. I am mad that Rat Corporation has convinced my Core Buyer that GAYLORDS of stuff that they should have been paid Copper #2 on has been paid at "Communication Wire" Rate.

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Originally Posted by sledge

bingo!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by sledge

So we all agree that this.. without a doubt.. is #2 Insulated Copper wire!

The rat corporation that my core buyer sells too upstream- is buying this off of their suppliers as "Communication wire" Not sure the price the core buyer is getting from rat corporation.. but I'd get paid .40/lb- See the Bullwater here?

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Now in order to make everything right again Sledge, you need to find another wire buyer, this yard does not deserve to get your hard earned wire!

Super Dave-
I am going to try and have a discussion with my Core Buyer. He only recently started buying things that are not true Auto Cores- He started out as a Converter buyer strictly. Up until about a year ago he dealt strictly with Auto Cores and I think he is attempting to expand his business with taking in things like Brass, Copper and Aluminum. Thus far it has been a great relationship and I have even educated THEM about different grades of aluminum. My fear right now is that THEY are being taken advantage of! Rat Corporation is telling them something that is flat out UNTRUE and are getting a huge benefit from anyone they can "dupe."

The core buyer has been faced with the same situation I have had with Converters when I started out doing cars as a rookie. When I began I couldn't tell you the difference between a Torpedo from a Breadloaf. They have always been fair to pay me for exactly what it was, I am hoping to return that favor.. even if it comes at the suggestion that they NOT sell to "Rat Corporation" There are other yards that will buy from them- They are one of THE most respected core buyers in the area- fair, honest and business done right.. and with a few phone calls I may just be able to facilitate that relationship for my Core Buyer. Right now they have all their eggs in one basket.. and the basket is decaying.. if I can convince them that there are other baskets out there that will be FAIR to them.. it will benefit them and ME in the long run!

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Originally Posted by sledge

So we all agree that this.. without a doubt.. is #2 Insulated Copper wire!

The rat corporation that my core buyer sells too upstream- is buying this off of their suppliers as "Communication wire" Not sure the price the core buyer is getting from rat corporation.. but I'd get paid .40/lb- See the Bullwater here?

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Sledge,

For me that would be #2 at one yard, 30% at another and something totally different at a specialty buyer. Do you know what gauge it is? Is it all single jacketed? Is it tin coated? These would all play into what I would get at the specialty buyer. Last time I was there, they bought 16 gauge single jacketed tin coated wire (came out of a plastic testing machine) as THHN. Got $1.80 something a pound. If they were to call it Telco (cat 5, phone wire, etc., I'd still get over $1.15

Heeeeey, long time no see. I get 90cents still and I can mix in the ribbons. I can leave on bulbs, tape, brackets and sheathing

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Originally Posted by corycouch

Heeeeey, long time no see. I get 90cents still and I can mix in the ribbons. I can leave on bulbs, tape, brackets and sheathing

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YEEES.. King of Cars is Back (if only for a while!) What's up brotha!

The king of cars sorry Cory and sledge but i think i have that title lol.

It is harness wire which is somewhat #2 or so.I think i get $0.77lb for it.

Almost forgot to mention Gus- Supreme Car King of Canada.
They named the movie "I Am Legend" after him!

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Originally Posted by sledge

YEEES.. King of Cars is Back (if only for a while!) What's up brotha!

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Thank sledge, I've stepped down I guess :) . I've still bought around 20 this year. A few weeks back I bought several from a mechanic shop and a sealed auction at a wrecker service, I went home for 3 days :). I'm still working on generators and it's been going good. I'm in the Houston area now and will probably be here for a while. We are on a trial with a major carrier and they give us over 400 sites. They brought 3 of us in to take care of it so it's a good opportunity for me. Good to see everyone still doin good

King of cars and fire extinguishers!!!!! Good to read you are doing well Cory. All the best and safe travels bro.